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	<title>Comments on: Annotated 1-9</title>
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		<title>By: Dranikos</title>
		<link>https://guildedage.net/comic/annotated-1-9/comment-page-1/#comment-1615038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dranikos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2023 14:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guildedage.net/?post_type=comic&#038;p=9242#comment-1615038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s been 4 and a half years since this comment, but I thought I&#039;d weigh in on this a little.  What you&#039;re describing is more &quot;Sapient&quot;, Intelligence born of Wisdom and Knowledge, than &quot;Sentient&quot;, Intelligence born of Emotion or Sensation.  Dogs are sentient (they react to and learn from emotional stimuli, like being goodest boy), but not sapient (they&#039;re not going to pick up a book, or pursue an alternative path via experimentation).

ALL animals are sentient.  The question becomes one of sapience.

In this regard, the kobolds fit the bill of being a sentient race, but not a sapient one.  (and a lot, A LOT of sci-fi and fiction conflates the two, leading to needless confusion over the term).  Kobolds are capable of the emotion or sensational need of &quot;hungry, need food.  There food.  Get food&quot;, but don&#039;t have the sapient ability to reason out sustainability or alternative tracks (farming, trade, etc).  Orcs meanwhile are clearly shown to be capable of reason and intelligence (they&#039;re just assumed to be non-sapient due to being non-verbal).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been 4 and a half years since this comment, but I thought I&#8217;d weigh in on this a little.  What you&#8217;re describing is more &#8220;Sapient&#8221;, Intelligence born of Wisdom and Knowledge, than &#8220;Sentient&#8221;, Intelligence born of Emotion or Sensation.  Dogs are sentient (they react to and learn from emotional stimuli, like being goodest boy), but not sapient (they&#8217;re not going to pick up a book, or pursue an alternative path via experimentation).</p>
<p>ALL animals are sentient.  The question becomes one of sapience.</p>
<p>In this regard, the kobolds fit the bill of being a sentient race, but not a sapient one.  (and a lot, A LOT of sci-fi and fiction conflates the two, leading to needless confusion over the term).  Kobolds are capable of the emotion or sensational need of &#8220;hungry, need food.  There food.  Get food&#8221;, but don&#8217;t have the sapient ability to reason out sustainability or alternative tracks (farming, trade, etc).  Orcs meanwhile are clearly shown to be capable of reason and intelligence (they&#8217;re just assumed to be non-sapient due to being non-verbal).</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>https://guildedage.net/comic/annotated-1-9/comment-page-1/#comment-1576523</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2022 17:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guildedage.net/?post_type=comic&#038;p=9242#comment-1576523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That seems wrong, actually! Despite what Genesis claims, the upright, two-legged design of the kobolds means the loins are vulnerable and likely sensitive. Seems reasonable that a species that fights would evolve some means of protecting those. In fact, that seems to be how &lt;I&gt;we&lt;/I&gt; discovered clothing...the cultural prohibitions tend to come &lt;I&gt;after&lt;/I&gt; finding a practice that makes good sense at the time, just as most of the rules in Leviticus seem to be a how-to guide for helping an ancient tribe survive. (And then we tend to cling to these rules long after we&#039;ve outgrown their original purpose, but that&#039;s another discussion.)

This is hair-splitting, but it&#039;s a fair example of how these kinds of evidence-based arguments just don&#039;t cut any ice with me here. Cavemen were real; kobolds are made up, and &lt;I&gt;Guilded Age&lt;/I&gt; is clearly not bound by what races are like in other fantasy works. The only real evidence about Arkerran kobolds is what&#039;s in our text, and literally the only things they do in &lt;I&gt;Guilded Age&lt;/I&gt; are attack crops, fight heroes, and die. If a decently made spear is proof enough of a human-equivalent soul, then I&#039;ll put a spear in my potted plant and say &quot;Behold: a man.&quot; You might view this position as ignoring anthropology, and that&#039;s your right: I&#039;d view it as a certain freedom of imagination that fantasy is poorer without.

I don&#039;t believe I ever said that there were &lt;i&gt;requirements&lt;/I&gt; for sentience that the kobolds clearly failed to meet. I&#039;m pretty sure my position, in 2018 as now, was that either interpretation was possible, but the kobolds-are-sentient interpretation is one I can&#039;t personally abide. Because, at the risk of being a broken record here...I don&#039;t want our heroes to be mass-murderers! Not even accidentally! Not even as some kind of statement about the dehumanization of indigenous cultures that gets taken for granted until it isn&#039;t, that&#039;s exactly what the orcs are already for!

I don&#039;t want characters I put this much of my heart into to be cast in that role! I don&#039;t think that&#039;s too much to ask, when the overall evidence is this inconclusive! Byron does not need MORE guilt!

And yes, obviously, if I&#039;d known this was going to be any kind of issue, I would&#039;ve asked Flo and/or Erica to redo this earliest of Byron scenes and swap the kobolds out for something less sapient-looking. Maybe a bunch of flying serpents, maybe some shambling horrors that a wizard created years ago. Maybe zombies... kinda funny to me to think of zombies as a nuisance to spray your crops for while rolling your eyes, instead of The End of All Civilization (we have berserkers for that). Of course, even then, it&#039;s hard to prove a negative without a reliable omniscient narrator. Could the Corruptor Beast have been composing sonnets in its head all the time it fought our heroes? Did it want to love as well as to feed? As far as the text is concerned, who knows? But it doesn&#039;t have the kind of appearance that prompts such speculation. I guess kobolds do, at least for some. Darn those loincloths and spears!

Even if I&#039;d realized this would be an issue after the kobolds had been established and before the end of the series, I would&#039;ve pushed for some way to address it in Chapter 40 (the kobolds&#039; last appearance). Maybe WAV could&#039;ve played the kobolds some music and determined their lack of intelligent thought from their inability to recognize patterns. Or, if you insist, he could&#039;ve found out the opposite, and blithe kobold-slayers like Frigg and Sundar would&#039;ve had to confront the blood that was on their hands without their knowledge. As I&#039;ve said, I wouldn&#039;t like that (one of Sundar&#039;s defining moments involves his defense of the orcs), but it would at least be better than thinking kobold sentience was an issue and still just ignoring it. &quot;Figuring out what&#039;s right is a never-ending process. You&#039;re never done,&quot; Syr&#039;Nj could&#039;ve said to comfort her fellows, as the sky elves relocated the remaining kobolds to someplace far from human lands.

But instead, Flo did not mention to me that she thought kobolds were sentient until after the last chapter was scripted and mostly published, so THANKS, BUDDY, THANKS HEAPS 

This will, I think, be my only kobold-related post of 2022, except to pull people back to this thread. I&#039;ve got other stuff to deal with. And ultimately, no matter how much I talk, &quot;our&quot; comic becomes &quot;your&quot; comic, in the end. It&#039;s on your screen, you can read it as you see fit. I can&#039;t control that experience, and I wouldn&#039;t even want to. But if I could offer a bit of advice, I&#039;d say: read it in the way you enjoy it most. Life&#039;s too short not to take what pleasures we can make for ourselves. And if what you enjoy is to poke at one of the series&#039; most regrettable creative decisions...seriously, why didn&#039;t we use dire locusts or some kind of floating mouths?...then hey, that&#039;s your business.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That seems wrong, actually! Despite what Genesis claims, the upright, two-legged design of the kobolds means the loins are vulnerable and likely sensitive. Seems reasonable that a species that fights would evolve some means of protecting those. In fact, that seems to be how <i>we</i> discovered clothing&#8230;the cultural prohibitions tend to come <i>after</i> finding a practice that makes good sense at the time, just as most of the rules in Leviticus seem to be a how-to guide for helping an ancient tribe survive. (And then we tend to cling to these rules long after we&#8217;ve outgrown their original purpose, but that&#8217;s another discussion.)</p>
<p>This is hair-splitting, but it&#8217;s a fair example of how these kinds of evidence-based arguments just don&#8217;t cut any ice with me here. Cavemen were real; kobolds are made up, and <i>Guilded Age</i> is clearly not bound by what races are like in other fantasy works. The only real evidence about Arkerran kobolds is what&#8217;s in our text, and literally the only things they do in <i>Guilded Age</i> are attack crops, fight heroes, and die. If a decently made spear is proof enough of a human-equivalent soul, then I&#8217;ll put a spear in my potted plant and say &#8220;Behold: a man.&#8221; You might view this position as ignoring anthropology, and that&#8217;s your right: I&#8217;d view it as a certain freedom of imagination that fantasy is poorer without.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe I ever said that there were <i>requirements</i> for sentience that the kobolds clearly failed to meet. I&#8217;m pretty sure my position, in 2018 as now, was that either interpretation was possible, but the kobolds-are-sentient interpretation is one I can&#8217;t personally abide. Because, at the risk of being a broken record here&#8230;I don&#8217;t want our heroes to be mass-murderers! Not even accidentally! Not even as some kind of statement about the dehumanization of indigenous cultures that gets taken for granted until it isn&#8217;t, that&#8217;s exactly what the orcs are already for!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want characters I put this much of my heart into to be cast in that role! I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s too much to ask, when the overall evidence is this inconclusive! Byron does not need MORE guilt!</p>
<p>And yes, obviously, if I&#8217;d known this was going to be any kind of issue, I would&#8217;ve asked Flo and/or Erica to redo this earliest of Byron scenes and swap the kobolds out for something less sapient-looking. Maybe a bunch of flying serpents, maybe some shambling horrors that a wizard created years ago. Maybe zombies&#8230; kinda funny to me to think of zombies as a nuisance to spray your crops for while rolling your eyes, instead of The End of All Civilization (we have berserkers for that). Of course, even then, it&#8217;s hard to prove a negative without a reliable omniscient narrator. Could the Corruptor Beast have been composing sonnets in its head all the time it fought our heroes? Did it want to love as well as to feed? As far as the text is concerned, who knows? But it doesn&#8217;t have the kind of appearance that prompts such speculation. I guess kobolds do, at least for some. Darn those loincloths and spears!</p>
<p>Even if I&#8217;d realized this would be an issue after the kobolds had been established and before the end of the series, I would&#8217;ve pushed for some way to address it in Chapter 40 (the kobolds&#8217; last appearance). Maybe WAV could&#8217;ve played the kobolds some music and determined their lack of intelligent thought from their inability to recognize patterns. Or, if you insist, he could&#8217;ve found out the opposite, and blithe kobold-slayers like Frigg and Sundar would&#8217;ve had to confront the blood that was on their hands without their knowledge. As I&#8217;ve said, I wouldn&#8217;t like that (one of Sundar&#8217;s defining moments involves his defense of the orcs), but it would at least be better than thinking kobold sentience was an issue and still just ignoring it. &#8220;Figuring out what&#8217;s right is a never-ending process. You&#8217;re never done,&#8221; Syr&#8217;Nj could&#8217;ve said to comfort her fellows, as the sky elves relocated the remaining kobolds to someplace far from human lands.</p>
<p>But instead, Flo did not mention to me that she thought kobolds were sentient until after the last chapter was scripted and mostly published, so THANKS, BUDDY, THANKS HEAPS </p>
<p>This will, I think, be my only kobold-related post of 2022, except to pull people back to this thread. I&#8217;ve got other stuff to deal with. And ultimately, no matter how much I talk, &#8220;our&#8221; comic becomes &#8220;your&#8221; comic, in the end. It&#8217;s on your screen, you can read it as you see fit. I can&#8217;t control that experience, and I wouldn&#8217;t even want to. But if I could offer a bit of advice, I&#8217;d say: read it in the way you enjoy it most. Life&#8217;s too short not to take what pleasures we can make for ourselves. And if what you enjoy is to poke at one of the series&#8217; most regrettable creative decisions&#8230;seriously, why didn&#8217;t we use dire locusts or some kind of floating mouths?&#8230;then hey, that&#8217;s your business.</p>
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		<title>By: LookieLouE1707</title>
		<link>https://guildedage.net/comic/annotated-1-9/comment-page-1/#comment-1576389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LookieLouE1707]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2022 21:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guildedage.net/?post_type=comic&#038;p=9242#comment-1576389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[really, the loinclothes are even more significant than the metal-tipped spears, because loincloths have no productive value, fulfill no evolutionary role, they are products of taboo, of a sophisticated culture. maybe a mindless animal could snatch away your spear and jab at you with it, but it would never conceive of making and wearing a loincloth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>really, the loinclothes are even more significant than the metal-tipped spears, because loincloths have no productive value, fulfill no evolutionary role, they are products of taboo, of a sophisticated culture. maybe a mindless animal could snatch away your spear and jab at you with it, but it would never conceive of making and wearing a loincloth.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: LookieLouE1707</title>
		<link>https://guildedage.net/comic/annotated-1-9/comment-page-1/#comment-1576386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LookieLouE1707]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2022 21:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guildedage.net/?post_type=comic&#038;p=9242#comment-1576386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[if you require a sophisticated, productive material culture before affirming a people&#039;s sentience/sapience you are unpersoning a significant chunk of human history. certain christians have made such an argument to justify biblical genocide - they dismiss the tribes the israelites genocided as mere parasite cultures, incapable of civilization (hence the pointlessness of trying to save their noncombatant children at least). and in fact these kobolds have a sophisticated material culture - their loincloths appear to show some evidence of tailoring, which suggests division of labor, and their spears have metal tips. that means either they have metallurgy, they engage in trade with other species, or at a minimum they have learned systematic theft of a form of implement evolution didn&#039;t program them to use. this is fundamentally unlike hermit crabs mindlessly crawling into discarded shelters for aeons - this behavior requires a mind, abstract thought. if they had attacked using tree branches as improvised clubs you might have had an interesting ambiguity, but these guys are more sophisticated than many humans. in fact if you had drawn cavemen with exactly this behavior and material culture and then depicted your heroes casually butchering and skinning them you would never have even thought to handwave it with &quot;well, maybe they aren&#039;t sentient&quot;. the real determining factor is how humanoid their appearance is, as you suggest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you require a sophisticated, productive material culture before affirming a people&#8217;s sentience/sapience you are unpersoning a significant chunk of human history. certain christians have made such an argument to justify biblical genocide &#8211; they dismiss the tribes the israelites genocided as mere parasite cultures, incapable of civilization (hence the pointlessness of trying to save their noncombatant children at least). and in fact these kobolds have a sophisticated material culture &#8211; their loincloths appear to show some evidence of tailoring, which suggests division of labor, and their spears have metal tips. that means either they have metallurgy, they engage in trade with other species, or at a minimum they have learned systematic theft of a form of implement evolution didn&#8217;t program them to use. this is fundamentally unlike hermit crabs mindlessly crawling into discarded shelters for aeons &#8211; this behavior requires a mind, abstract thought. if they had attacked using tree branches as improvised clubs you might have had an interesting ambiguity, but these guys are more sophisticated than many humans. in fact if you had drawn cavemen with exactly this behavior and material culture and then depicted your heroes casually butchering and skinning them you would never have even thought to handwave it with &#8220;well, maybe they aren&#8217;t sentient&#8221;. the real determining factor is how humanoid their appearance is, as you suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: John C.</title>
		<link>https://guildedage.net/comic/annotated-1-9/comment-page-1/#comment-1397834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guildedage.net/?post_type=comic&#038;p=9242#comment-1397834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scenario C: They&#039;re a barely sentient race that breed like crazy. That would explain their parasitic/scavenger nature. Simple hunting/gathering would not be enough to feed their large numbers. They&#039;re intelligent enough to mimic the other races and use simple tools, but not enough to think of solutions like animal domestication and farming. The over-breeding would make them nuisance enough to require adventurers to thin the herds so to speak.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scenario C: They&#8217;re a barely sentient race that breed like crazy. That would explain their parasitic/scavenger nature. Simple hunting/gathering would not be enough to feed their large numbers. They&#8217;re intelligent enough to mimic the other races and use simple tools, but not enough to think of solutions like animal domestication and farming. The over-breeding would make them nuisance enough to require adventurers to thin the herds so to speak.</p>
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