Annotated 44-18
FB: “Let’s see, accept the word of the most trusted authority I can find or keep Googling around until I find a source that tells me what I want to hear… well, which one’s EASIER? Unrelated: I should eat more cookies today.” — Your Subconscious
One of my more unpopular opinions is that search engines need to err less on the side of “service” and more on the side of utilitarianism (doing the most good for the most people). Google and its struggling imitators follow the culture when they could have the power to shape it. A flat-earther can find stuff that’ll validate their belief system easily, and so can a “Trump won in 2020” brainwash victim. And yes, there are a lot of problems with the idea of search engines deciding they know what’s best for society, but to throw up their hands and not even try is not a very responsible use of their immense power.
It’s interesting that no winter elves take a Google-like approach to dealing with Best and tell him, “Oh, yeah, your tomb is gonna cover twelve acres. I’m the real oracle, everyone else here’s a fraud, thanks for persisting until you found me.” I think they know, though, that in the long run, a Best with his delusions reinforced would be even more insufferable than this version is.
Stop the steal!Glorious destiny! Oh well. *puts mask back on*That actually raises a good question. Can they see any other timeline then the ‘destined’ one? And if so, how many? Do they see every variation of it, or just the one true one? If so is everything pre-destined? I am suddenly realizing how many questions these guys raise. Especially with Webo saying that Byron may never have another episode, the operative word being may. That means they don’t see certainly everything.
How can they possibly be bored by that then, though? That doesn’t make sense. A literal left turn at some points would put our characters in a very different world and leave the shape of Arkerra a very different one as well. What if they never saved Taro, for instance, or thought him actually worth putting down right then and there because he did something extra messed up? There are numerous potentials that exist with this story and with that may there hanging like a pair of cement shoes, it’s hard to say that these elves could ever be bored of anything since they’d only know the possible and the probable, not the exact.
It feels either inconsistent or like Webo is hand holding a little.
If I had to guess, the “duck you, take your profecy and get the heck out” is partly due to them mostly seeing the same thing over and over, them having to live in the frozen bumhole because they see the reruns over and over, and having to relocate their place in the frozen bumhole every so often when someone or other is getting too close to finding them somehow…
But mostly the frozen bumhole they’re in. Heck, I’m a Finn and our actually has “the green winter” as people from south call it. And still we are genetically very sour and sullen folk. Until you get to know us. :D
Green Winter? Never heard that phrase before (except as a character name in Shadowrun: Dragonfall) — how is that meant? I would have thought most winters in Finland to be have very little green?
Also: The few Fins I’ve ever met in person were not particularly sour or sullen. There does seem to be a particular type of humor made in Finland, though, as evidenced by the Leningrad Cowboys and Aki Kaurismäki movies (I *loved* https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/man_without_a_past).
It’s about how even in summer time, it’s at times not particularly hot around here. Especially the northern you go. So everything is green, but people from south still feel like it’s too cold to be summer.
Although nowadays, thanks to global warming, our actual winters have been surprisingly green as well. Heck, couple of years back we had trees that started sprouting round Christmas and rabbits shedding their winter coats, ‘cose it was getting them killed against the non-white background…
And with Finns it’s a bit luck of the draw. For example, I’m very outspoken and social (though do like to spend my time alone as well quite a bit), but there are people who can interact with others, but have no desire to do so.
Also part of it is a bit of an illusion. ‘Cose when you talk to a Finn, they rarely say anything while you talk, which to many cultures is a sign of lack of interest. It’s been noted as an anomaly that when we go to movies, we pretty much sit the whole thing in quiet, just staring at the screen. Unless you are outright killing someone, we usually just let you do your thing, ‘cose it’s none of our business. In general we just take things without much of complaint, like there’s have been few campaign from restaurants to have us voice our complaint while eating and not just few weeks after when someone happens to ask, ‘cose if the steak is raw, you can have it remade. XD
But when it’s our turn to talk, we do talk. Sure it might on occasion be “yes”, “no” or just “I don’t know” (or like my father has a habit to answering everything “ok”), but even if we actually weren’t really that interested in your things, we have listened and if it requires some input from us, we give it.
The movies we watch in near silence, except for appropriate laughing at funny parts, due to wanting others to get most of the movie without us interrupting. But when the movie is done, we will burst into chatter and go through the whole movie again with all the pointers and ideas some other cultures go through already while the movie is playing.
Which also ties into the “we don’t mind you doing stuff”, ‘cose we probably do, even at times when it’s all good and nice, but just foreign to us. But we usually want to respect your right to do stuff, just like we expect others to let us do our things. If you’re breaking or hurting something, then we take an issue with it.
But that doesn’t much extent to things that happen to us specifically, if we deem we can live with it. It’s the “gut”, “resilience”, “determination”… The “sisu”. So if something bad happens to us and we kinda could do something for it, but it would be more bother, we just might let it slide. Who hasn’t seen some hardship some days? Still, if we think you shouldn’t be stepping on us, we smack your boot and booty.
Heck, just last year there was another great song made, explaining the nature of Finns: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/pohjola-north.html-1
Couple of things I would translate differently, but the main idea is definitely there.
Hmm, that might also explain the amount of silence in Kaurismäki’s movies, and the Leningrad cowboy movies too, for that matter.
It would definitely be hard for me to assimilate into this culture but I don’t like it any less for that.
Of course with all the cultural exchange, even this is slightly changing as we go, but like you said, we are not all year long sour nor sullen, especially if we are the traveling type (and a lot of us wouldn’t mind traveling, but it being a bother and you can’t get proper rye bread abroad anyway… XD).
It’s still really hard to unintentionally insult a Finn (our greatest movies are about a wastrel by the name of Numbskull Emptybrook, good luck finding those translated though…) and we tend to be more accommodating than hostile towards others (since you can get rid of people far easier by telling them where they want to go rather than telling the to just take a hike). Even behind back we might mutter, but would rarely actively go against you in any way (again, the bother and if you just do you, we can do we just fine anyway…) and if you’ve proven yourself decent enough, you can usually ask for aid for anything and someone will be inclined to help.
And if you’ve ever yearned for some peace and quiet, then Finland certainly is the place to be. XD
Plus, there’s always exceptions. Most what I’ve explained could in parts be taken as just stereotypes, but… They are stereotypes for a reason.
Now Finnish Swedish people then are quite a bit different… (an actual “minority” in Finland, next to the Sámi, but even the latter are a bit more like your average Finns, with some major differences too, but…)
My own theory is that the future they see is the future as it will be, with whatever motivations and knowledge of everyone involved at every moment, including themselves.
This means it is the result of what they themselves would do in a given situation, knowing what the result of themselves doing it will be.
And that means they tell him the truth (because they know it will help eventually, and because it’s true), but they do it in an appropriately annoyed tone because they damn well can’t be arsed to be polite to the guy they know is going to just call them posers and storm off anyway.
Sure, sure, but then why the ‘may’ in ‘Byron, you may never have another episode…’ line? If Byron has the chance to, then they can’t tell perfectly. If Byron has no chance to, the may seems a bit cruel.
I’m not sure about the “may”.
It might also be a somewhat sloppy or interpretable formulation. As in “maybe it’s raining today but I won’t let that spoil my fun” (said while it’s definitely raining, not just maybe).
Or maybe Weo doesn’t want to tell Byron that it’s all going to be fine because then he might not keep taking the medicine. So he tells him what he needs to hear to keep taking it.
Or we might be over-interpreting a single word… hard to tell.
“Da purpla orks be da sneakiest!”
“Wot? Wos dat ya jabbering?”
“Has ya eva seen a purpla ork?”
“… No I hasn’t…”
“Is wa Ah mean… Ded sneaky…”
Just because something doesn’t have proof, clearly doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. Snek peeple be just sneky.
I like that the hunters caught jackalopes.
Don’t ask me why that pleases me like it does, but…
Jackalopes.
Well, that explains it then. Nobody ever sees them because they live in snowy mountains, not the Midwestern plains.
alt-text missing? It currently reads “annotated 44-18” on my end.
Hmmm. Thanks, fixing.
😬 yeah I dunno about that T. What if They’d decided to suppress information about people wanting to promote masks?
Oh yeah: https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/06/facebook-censors-do-it-yourself-charitable-face-masks-while-cracking-down-on-coronavirus-misinformation/
That sounds a lot more nefarious than it actually turned out to be upon reading. Which was just a rehash of a NYTimes article.
All this on the week Elon says he’s going to liberate Twitter.
Yeah, and the working theory is that “free speech absolutist” Musk is going to tear apart content moderation and unban Trump, which is allowing the proliferation of lies in the service of “neutrality.” Which is pretty much what I’m talking about.
Are you hearing that from Elon Musk himself? Are you just passing along what you’re hearing/reading from elsewhere? How do you know what he’s going to do?
I’m not sure exactly how to respond to an argument that implies only Musk’s personal friends could have any idea what he might do. No one has ever accused him of being shy about his opinions. “Free speech absolutist” is how he describes himself, and he’s currently using his platform to direct online abuse at Twitter execs for pushing content moderation.
Is it a CERTAINTY that he’ll unban Trump? No, and that’s why I called it a “working theory.” But it’s a theory voiced by a lot of professional analysts whose opinions I trust, in at least four vetted publications. It’s worth taking seriously.
Thanks T. I was thinking more of if you were drawing from things like his words at the TED interview a couple weeks ago.
https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM (Starts at 11:48, 16 minutes)
There’s stuff in there about the limits of free speech, how to crowd-source the algorithm, and keeping an audit log of actions taken. Everyone seems to go immediately to “he’ll unban Trump” as some kind of knockdown argument, and I think there’s a lot to his plan that is going ignored or undiscussed.
I’m not sure what you mean by “directing online abuse at Twitter execs?”
It’s official: https://apnews.com/article/twitter-elon-musk-would-reverse-trump-ban-9e891601ca0a86a6b21c1d667c2cf5ba?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email
Well, what if FB did whatever the Government of Myanmar wanted from them? Or of Google and Apple complied with Chinese demands for censorship, or if Youtube’s algorithm somehow started funelling people towards increasingly extremist views?
To me, the very existence of companies with that kind of power is obscene and should be dealt with, swiftly.
Yeah, plus one to this. Censorship isn’t the answer imo, it’s checks on excessive power. Handing a megaphone to extremists just ratchets up extremism. But it’s the megaphone that’s the problem.
No, it’s the only responsible use. The only responsible thing to do with the power to control what information people are allowed to see is to not do anything with it. Which, frankly, is not what Alphabet is actually doing, but that’s not the point here.
The alternative to not using that power is abusing it. There is no ethical way to use it at all.
To use it is fundamentally to make the claim that you Know The Truth, that you have everything figured out, and that you are so pure and benevolent that you deserve to manipulate people’s perceptions of the world to suit your desires.
It’s tempting, really really tempting, to use whatever power you might have to force people to think the right thoughts and believe the right beliefs. How can they be so wrong, right? They just don’t know any better because they only see lies, right? Just a little bit of adjustment and you can make them see the Truth, right? Just a little change here and there to make sure they see what you want them to see, what you know they need to see. And then you’ve decided their agency and autonomy aren’t as valid as yours, because you Know The Truth. You’ve decided they don’t deserve those things because they aren’t using them the right way. You’ve decided they aren’t really human. You’ve decided to do evil.
While my point is more Kantian in nature, I’ll happily argue that manipulating information is evil under a Utilitarian ethical framework as well. I dare say roughly all of history backs me up on that. At least, if there has been any governments or organizations that exerted power to control what people see and hear on a mass scale that actually did manage the most good for the most people, or even more good for more people than would have happened otherwise, I don’t know of them. Hell, I consider the injection of psychology into advertising in the early 20th century to have been one of the most disastrous events in history, and none of those slimeball advertisers have ever had anything near the kind of reach we’re talking about here.
Yeah, this so hard. Inviting the powerful to decide what’s best for us is inviting mass brainwashing and propaganda.