No, he really does. This is why he has him chained up instead of dead. Penk knows that one day they will be the enemy again and on that day Hammerhead is the Ace in the Hole.
I <3 Hammerhead. I don't agree with him in this case but I am so impressed with his willingness to keep trying to communicate on this page, even when the other person clearly doesn't understand him (didn't "why?" just get answered? Because they are enemies who will betray you tomorrow), even when the other person has by all rights done something that'd drive most people into a rage (berating you while you're tied up), even when the other person clearly underestimates his intelligence.
Oh Hammerhead. As a child I looked up to Yoda, and now I look up to you.
This philosophy can never work. If you never ask why about anything, you’re no better than an animal. I know that that’s kind of the point of this conversation, but… HAMMERHEAD is trying to sound profound, but he’s only sounding like an idiot, like the rest of the land sharks.
I gotta disagree. This is a shark for whom convictions are important. To live as one feels they are, ever uncompromising, even when living as such leads to death, that can be ignorance, but that can also be a choice. It feels like the latter in this case.
I think HH simply realizes that despite this isolated instance of cooperation Gastonia and its allies will still remain an enemy and their heroes will inevitably end up on the opposite side once again. In a way he’s looking at the big picture and I don’t think it can be said that his argument is entirely invalid.
It also demonstrates a clear and dangerous inability to move beyond the current status quo. “We fight because we fight.”
There’s no victory when the war can never end. Even assuming the World’s Rebellion wins and wipes out the Gastonian alliance to the last man, there will just be new prey. Someone else will take the place until he’s eaten everyone and everything he can. His convictions mean so much to him he would gladly, literally, let the world end just to kill a handful of humans RIGHT NOW.
Hammerhead just succinctly pointed out exactly why the World’s Rebellion are referred to as the savage races.
Not all the World’s Rebellion are landsharks. Most of them are working toward a combination of preserving the survival of their race and taking revenge for old grudges. It’s not very noble, but it’s ultimately very human, and you can’t argue that being sepatately conquered by Gastonia was working better for them. (Even their allies admit that Gastonia is pretty awful.)
Landsharks are different. They’re sharks. Sharks kill and eat things. That’s pretty much what they’re for.
I think you expect a bit much of the big guy here. He is the smartest member of a race that mostly speaks in three or less words sentences. Land sharks are simplicity personified: they wage war only because it is the mass-scale version of what they naturally do: predation. They barely qualify as sentient. To have the land sharks working for one side of a war is a impressive step for their culture, as it means they can restrict their instincts to eat at least ONE side. Things like truces and temporary alliances are too complicated when you have only just barely grasped “don’t eat EVERYTHING you see”. They are still closer to animal than cultured humanoid. Expecting them to do anything other than what their hunger and instincts tell them is more foolish than any landshark. At least they are sure about what they do. Penk needs to understand that.
And so does Penk (realise that they’ll be enemies again) and so he keeps Hammerhead held back from messing with the necessities of the current situation while keeping him around for when the day comes that he’s needed again – the sign of a true leader: doing what needs to be done regardless of whether that’s turning on an ally to keep new ones happy or keeping an Ace-in-the-Hole for when the new allies return to being old enemies.
The most practical purpose for fighting at all is to end the fight. That’s what pretty much all martial arts practice is all about; learn & know how to fight, hoping that you’ll never need to use it to end a fight.
‘His is the fury of the wildfire, the boiling blood of the volcano. He fights you not because you’ve wronged him, but because you’re there.’ I think that’s more fitting for HAMMERHEAD, here. (Though, ironically, the quote James used is the page quote on TV Tropes Blood Knight page, I discover as I Google for the card to get the flavour text.)
HH – for being a guy colored all gray, you sure see things only in black and white. Kinda reminds me of this Klingon’s logic as he argues with Kirk -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS4s3XXNLiE
Here’s my question for you, bub. When Penk first met you, you killed and ate some of your landshark brothers, (I guess to establish your dominance?), and later worked with them side by side to break into the Gastonian’s fort. So are other landsharks prey, or your comrades? Or does it depend on the situation? If the latter is true, then why can’t we call a truce while we fight the world-eating monster?
I have been *really* impressed with the art recently. It’s always been a really cool style, but you’re just hitting it out of the park right now. And the story is *just* as amazing.
Penk agrees with HAMMERHEAD. The problem is that HAMMERHEAD going nuts at the party would ruin the old: invite them to dinner, get them drunk and then slit their throats way of dealing with an enemy.
When you have HAMMERHEAD on your side, you don’t need to bother to wait for them to get drunk. You let him free, bar the exits, and prepare to mop up what’s left. Leave that conduct to Warlord Iver.
They can stick around for the cleanup though. No fuss body disposal, you don’t even have to start a fire or dig a hole. Though depending on their level of civilization when it comes to other things, you might have the more horrible latrine in existence.
Putting aside the humour for a second, this actually is a pretty good point. One of the biggest issues with massive warfare historically has been the corpse disposal- because hundreds of bodies rotting in a field makes that field pretty much unusable for anything else for years. But if you have landsharks going through and ‘vacuuming’ all that meat up, the land is usable again pretty quickly.
“Then you know why I caged you here.”
“Because if you did not, then I would eat them all.”
“Right. That’s just greedy, you need to leave some for the rest of us to eat.”
Penk cannot explain the rules of war and honor to Hammerhead because he’s never really thought about them himself. Yes, they will be enemies again in the future. But when an enemy saves you from a greater threat you don’t take advantage of their weakness afterward because, if you do, next time they won’t save you.
Also, ally != friend. Explaining to HH that the words don’t “change”, they just don’t refer to what he was assuming they did might help him understand. He probably still wouldn’t like it, but at least he’d understand.
Maybe I am thinking too much about it, but these last two pages make me think that HH does understand Penk’s point of view to some extent, he just doesn’t agree with it. When Penk tries to clarify things HH gets enraged, and what he’s saying now makes a lot of sense. Eating together now won’t change the fact that they will be enemies again tomorrow.
Looking back on how he acted previously, he reminds me of people who believe if you won’t stand by your convictions in the face of death, then what is the point of having them? If you cannot survive without your enemies help, you don’t deserve to survive at all; an extremist of survival of the fittest. Is it a nice way to think? No, but I wouldn’t say it is simply born of ignorance. Nor do I think he will turn on his current allies when the war ends simply to keep fighting. Turning on them because they become weak however…
Hammerhead is right here. You all seem to forget JUST WHO RUNS GASTONIA! These people are scheming soulless politicians who will stop at nothing to get what they want. Were you not there for the point in which syr’nj leaves the council room to go check on the guild? If you didn’t I would suggest going back and rereading it. They will backstab the savage races as soon as it suits them.
Well, I get him not being cool with the whole party with our enemies after the fact thing but I thought he was smart enough to eventually get the idea of intelligent enemy prioritization in the battle itself if it was explained the right way. Which clearly it wasn’t.
Last panel is really beautiful! It’s difficult enough to do expressions with a character whose face is all over the place – I mean, whose face has such different proportions. Really impressive.
I mostly only dislike that this makes it seem like Gondolessa was wrong when he said to seek out someone like this to be a champion, but only because I like Gondo SO much. But at the same time, if circumstances hadn’t changed, this wouldn’t be an issue, so I guess in the long run, it’s not as if Gondo could’ve predicted this. Hammerhead was a very good choice, back when killing EVERYTHING was important.
I really don’t think Penk appreciates him being blunt.
No, he really does. This is why he has him chained up instead of dead. Penk knows that one day they will be the enemy again and on that day Hammerhead is the Ace in the Hole.
The lack of response to my pun really hammered home that I went for a little too subtle. …well, that or the pun sucked.
Because we certainly need to drive home that he’s a hammerhead shark… :friggeyeroll:
The pun got a bit tied up, he just needs to unlock his inner punnery
Why knot?
I <3 Hammerhead. I don't agree with him in this case but I am so impressed with his willingness to keep trying to communicate on this page, even when the other person clearly doesn't understand him (didn't "why?" just get answered? Because they are enemies who will betray you tomorrow), even when the other person has by all rights done something that'd drive most people into a rage (berating you while you're tied up), even when the other person clearly underestimates his intelligence.
Oh Hammerhead. As a child I looked up to Yoda, and now I look up to you.
Not sure you should be close enough in his vicinity to be able to *look* at him, ‘Fish’ :P
:D fair
And, I’ve gotten taller since I was a kid; makes sense that I need someone taller to look up to. :)
If you look up to a blood-thirsty arsehole like Hammerhead, then yer fooked-up. Aye. Ye are.
This philosophy can never work. If you never ask why about anything, you’re no better than an animal. I know that that’s kind of the point of this conversation, but… HAMMERHEAD is trying to sound profound, but he’s only sounding like an idiot, like the rest of the land sharks.
I gotta disagree. This is a shark for whom convictions are important. To live as one feels they are, ever uncompromising, even when living as such leads to death, that can be ignorance, but that can also be a choice. It feels like the latter in this case.
So, they’re Rorsharks?
Have a bootleg gold star.
Was not the Land-Sharks joining The World’s Rebellion a changing of who was prey and who was not?
I think HH simply realizes that despite this isolated instance of cooperation Gastonia and its allies will still remain an enemy and their heroes will inevitably end up on the opposite side once again. In a way he’s looking at the big picture and I don’t think it can be said that his argument is entirely invalid.
It also demonstrates a clear and dangerous inability to move beyond the current status quo. “We fight because we fight.”
There’s no victory when the war can never end. Even assuming the World’s Rebellion wins and wipes out the Gastonian alliance to the last man, there will just be new prey. Someone else will take the place until he’s eaten everyone and everything he can. His convictions mean so much to him he would gladly, literally, let the world end just to kill a handful of humans RIGHT NOW.
Hammerhead just succinctly pointed out exactly why the World’s Rebellion are referred to as the savage races.
Not all the World’s Rebellion are landsharks. Most of them are working toward a combination of preserving the survival of their race and taking revenge for old grudges. It’s not very noble, but it’s ultimately very human, and you can’t argue that being sepatately conquered by Gastonia was working better for them. (Even their allies admit that Gastonia is pretty awful.)
Landsharks are different. They’re sharks. Sharks kill and eat things. That’s pretty much what they’re for.
I think you expect a bit much of the big guy here. He is the smartest member of a race that mostly speaks in three or less words sentences. Land sharks are simplicity personified: they wage war only because it is the mass-scale version of what they naturally do: predation. They barely qualify as sentient. To have the land sharks working for one side of a war is a impressive step for their culture, as it means they can restrict their instincts to eat at least ONE side. Things like truces and temporary alliances are too complicated when you have only just barely grasped “don’t eat EVERYTHING you see”. They are still closer to animal than cultured humanoid. Expecting them to do anything other than what their hunger and instincts tell them is more foolish than any landshark. At least they are sure about what they do. Penk needs to understand that.
And so does Penk (realise that they’ll be enemies again) and so he keeps Hammerhead held back from messing with the necessities of the current situation while keeping him around for when the day comes that he’s needed again – the sign of a true leader: doing what needs to be done regardless of whether that’s turning on an ally to keep new ones happy or keeping an Ace-in-the-Hole for when the new allies return to being old enemies.
He is sounding rather like a Qunari, to be quite honest.
Fighting doesn’t have a purpose, fighting is a purpose. You don’t ask why a plague spreads or a field burns; don’t ask why I fight.
Sensible people do ask those things. It’s how you cure plagues and prevent wildfires.
I don’t think the The Black Knight counts as sensible, and neither does Hammerhead.
Hehe, I thought I recognized that text from somewhere.
The most practical purpose for fighting at all is to end the fight. That’s what pretty much all martial arts practice is all about; learn & know how to fight, hoping that you’ll never need to use it to end a fight.
Have a kudos for the quote.
Now I’m going to go and check up what the Red Knight’s flavour text was.
*Blood Knight
‘His is the fury of the wildfire, the boiling blood of the volcano. He fights you not because you’ve wronged him, but because you’re there.’ I think that’s more fitting for HAMMERHEAD, here. (Though, ironically, the quote James used is the page quote on TV Tropes Blood Knight page, I discover as I Google for the card to get the flavour text.)
Just tell him some prey are sweeter than others, and it all makes sense to him. Seriously.
I’d have just said “And that’s why they call us savages. Apparently they’re not wrong.”
Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to eat them, preferably deep fried!
HH – for being a guy colored all gray, you sure see things only in black and white. Kinda reminds me of this Klingon’s logic as he argues with Kirk -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS4s3XXNLiE
Here’s my question for you, bub. When Penk first met you, you killed and ate some of your landshark brothers, (I guess to establish your dominance?), and later worked with them side by side to break into the Gastonian’s fort. So are other landsharks prey, or your comrades? Or does it depend on the situation? If the latter is true, then why can’t we call a truce while we fight the world-eating monster?
I’m starting to go gray. Its a good day to dye!
That’s bugging me too. Not so much the black and white morality, but the seeming hypocrisy. I at least expected more than that from HH.
Maybe he still DOES eat other landsharks… and anything else that can’t fight hard enough to avoid chewing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS4s3XXNLiE
Sheesh, if I can’t get it to work this time, I’ll –
You’ll what?
… biggmac?
biggmac, what will you do?
biggmac, are you still there? Is everything okay? What are you going to do, biggmac? D:
biggmac hasn’t answered because he DID manage to get a working link…
;)
Why? Because.
I have been *really* impressed with the art recently. It’s always been a really cool style, but you’re just hitting it out of the park right now. And the story is *just* as amazing.
Thank you very much, Russell.
The Art is truly excellent.
Penk agrees with HAMMERHEAD. The problem is that HAMMERHEAD going nuts at the party would ruin the old: invite them to dinner, get them drunk and then slit their throats way of dealing with an enemy.
When you have HAMMERHEAD on your side, you don’t need to bother to wait for them to get drunk. You let him free, bar the exits, and prepare to mop up what’s left. Leave that conduct to Warlord Iver.
Sure, but it’s really a matter of timing. Now’s not the time.
The land sharks are the guys you want to have on your side during the war, and as far away from you as possible when it’s over.
They can stick around for the cleanup though. No fuss body disposal, you don’t even have to start a fire or dig a hole. Though depending on their level of civilization when it comes to other things, you might have the more horrible latrine in existence.
Putting aside the humour for a second, this actually is a pretty good point. One of the biggest issues with massive warfare historically has been the corpse disposal- because hundreds of bodies rotting in a field makes that field pretty much unusable for anything else for years. But if you have landsharks going through and ‘vacuuming’ all that meat up, the land is usable again pretty quickly.
Then Landsharks are exceptionally dumb, because I can think of not a one that doesn’t get the concept of opportunistic predation.
For somebody that disdains words, he sure uses a lot of them!
What are words for? When no one listens anymore?
It’s no use talking at all.
…and now I can’t get this song out of my head.
Did someone say something?
Wait a second…
http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=96689
Ah, much better.
“Then you know why I caged you here.”
“Because if you did not, then I would eat them all.”
“Right. That’s just greedy, you need to leave some for the rest of us to eat.”
Got a very appropriate add for this page: http://oi58.tinypic.com/vrrcr6.jpg
*ad
Penk cannot explain the rules of war and honor to Hammerhead because he’s never really thought about them himself. Yes, they will be enemies again in the future. But when an enemy saves you from a greater threat you don’t take advantage of their weakness afterward because, if you do, next time they won’t save you.
Also, ally != friend. Explaining to HH that the words don’t “change”, they just don’t refer to what he was assuming they did might help him understand. He probably still wouldn’t like it, but at least he’d understand.
His tattoo should be a scorpion.
“Because it is my nature.”
He’s appetite personified and so kickazz he doesn’t need any other character traits.
Frickin’ min-max’ers.
Meanwhile at Fort Beacon’s Hill the Slothman infantry turn up for the battle.
Gee.some People here imply “barely more intelligent than an animal” as it would be a bad Thing.
GO HAMMERHEAD
Maybe I am thinking too much about it, but these last two pages make me think that HH does understand Penk’s point of view to some extent, he just doesn’t agree with it. When Penk tries to clarify things HH gets enraged, and what he’s saying now makes a lot of sense. Eating together now won’t change the fact that they will be enemies again tomorrow.
Looking back on how he acted previously, he reminds me of people who believe if you won’t stand by your convictions in the face of death, then what is the point of having them? If you cannot survive without your enemies help, you don’t deserve to survive at all; an extremist of survival of the fittest. Is it a nice way to think? No, but I wouldn’t say it is simply born of ignorance. Nor do I think he will turn on his current allies when the war ends simply to keep fighting. Turning on them because they become weak however…
Hammerhead is right here. You all seem to forget JUST WHO RUNS GASTONIA! These people are scheming soulless politicians who will stop at nothing to get what they want. Were you not there for the point in which syr’nj leaves the council room to go check on the guild? If you didn’t I would suggest going back and rereading it. They will backstab the savage races as soon as it suits them.
It might not be hammerhead’s reason but it is simply the truth. So long as the current group lead Gastonia there will never be piece.
Other useless words are “what the f*ck”, “are you bloody insane” and “go veggie”.
What did you save me for?
FOR LATER
Well, I get him not being cool with the whole party with our enemies after the fact thing but I thought he was smart enough to eventually get the idea of intelligent enemy prioritization in the battle itself if it was explained the right way. Which clearly it wasn’t.
Last panel is really beautiful! It’s difficult enough to do expressions with a character whose face is all over the place – I mean, whose face has such different proportions. Really impressive.
I mostly only dislike that this makes it seem like Gondolessa was wrong when he said to seek out someone like this to be a champion, but only because I like Gondo SO much. But at the same time, if circumstances hadn’t changed, this wouldn’t be an issue, so I guess in the long run, it’s not as if Gondo could’ve predicted this. Hammerhead was a very good choice, back when killing EVERYTHING was important.