Wow. I checked out a pretty sizable chunk of that a couple weeks ago when I had an itchin for some steam-punk. Didn’t realize it got awesome. Might have to move it a few notches up the reading queue.
There is, it’s called magic. Just because it disagrees with our laws of physics does not mean science can’t understand it. Science is about experimentation and if experiment proves something that we would call supernatural, it’s just as proven as gravity.
Agatha’s Law puts it perfectly, the TV Tropes page goes into further detail that shows how science can easily study phenomena we would call magic and even potentially improve on it. Science can discover things like if it matters what kind of newt for eye of newt or at what purity sulphur ceases to be sulphur ceases to be sulphur for the purposes of a fireball spell.
The only reason why ‘magic’ is unscientific in our world is because it’s not real. In fantasy worlds where it is real, magic is just another set of natural laws that can be studied pretty much like anything else.
Unless this is the Deathstalker series and you’re Owen Deathstalker. Or to a lesser extent John Taylor in Simon R. Green’s other series set in the Nightside.
Taylor’s power – To find anything. Even find things like the tiny flaw in reality that lets him unmake beings/negate their powers/what have you.
Owen’s power – SHAPE REALITY TO HIS WILL. Rules work against him? KICK REASON TO THE CURB AND MAKE YOUR OWN RULES.
Hell, the way his writing works well in that I’m fully willing to let him get away with it despite knowing, for a fact, that he can and WILL pull bullshit powers out of his ass at critical junctures so the good guys win (for a certain level of winning). Something about the ultraviolence is just COOL.
As long as I’m talking about rules, eff you Terry Goodkind. Richard Rahl pulls out bullcrap but lacks the finesse that Green imparts on his guys. Goddamned Gary Stu. HEY I NOTICED I’M RANTING. I STOP HERE.
If he can reshape reality, how can he ever lose at anything?
And yes, as long as magic has SOME kind of consistency (which is needed for any spells to be usable), it can be studied. People ALREADY DO study mysterious semi-nonsensical forces that can change when you look at them; there is an entire field of quantum physics.
From what I could make out of the general pattern of pre-modern legends about wizards, the thing about wizards is not that they know magic. The point is that they’re superhumanly wise. When Taliesin turns himself into a bird, it’s not that he’s using magic. He simply knows how to turn himself into a bird. The magic is that Taliesin somehow knows everything.
The problem with magic is that it’s all about dream-logic — in other words, it doesn’t actually make any sense. Look at fairy tales — the actual stories about fairies. Fairies are frightening and dangerous because they act in ways that don’t make any sense.
Once you get to D&D-style wizards who study for years in order to manipulate arcane energies in precise, predictable ways, you don’t have “magic” anymore, really — you’ve got alternate reality physics.
Magic, alternate reality physics, what’s the difference? Even the World of Darkness Mage reality warping-based-on-belief must have an underlying set of physical laws.
I bet Grave man has taken in the souls of every Mystic. He’s like..SUPER MYSTIC holding the power of every single slain one..for vengence..and so he’ll repopulate the Dwarves..and they’ll all be reborn..by his seed!…yup
Science fact/point of order: we live in a world where perfectly ordinary, nonmagical rocks can separate souls from bodies. Big, heavy rocks have an easier time of it, but even little ones can get in on the act with a little extra physics.
We can also easily reverse many conditions that would have been viewed as death a scant hundred years ago, and would likely be viewed as such within the setting. Entering a state of temporary “death”, in which the spirit may wander, makes perfect sense.
Admittedly, how the rock does it is a question to ask. It’s one thing to establish possibilities, but logistics are another matter.
That’s actually foreshadowing for a later date when he’ll reveal an awesome hammer themed power he chooses not to use. It’s like Regal Bryant and his hands. He doesn’t use them, but nations would tremble if he did.
“And my name is Sadlook Panhurt.”
“… You’re kidding me, right?”
“Yeah, you got me. Real name is He-Who-Stalks, known in some regions as simply ‘the Defiler’. The others just rhyme out of coincidence. ”
“Hahaha, you dwarves are hilarious, man!”
“Why? I’m not joking. I watch you sleep.”
“…” 0_o
Lol. Mahjong. I know about it from about five episodes of Saki and some legend of Koizumi, so we may nod in mutual understanding of this great and noble game;)
Declaring Richii tends to involve locking yourself down to your current plans, which can make you very vulnerable – once you’re in richii, you can’ avoid dealing in to someone else’s hand if the tiles wish you to.
Now I’m curious . . . were there only five Savasi Mystics (Gravedust and four peers) before Iver began killing them or is this an artistic choice and showing hordes of them would be a pain (which I totally understand)? If there was only the five, Gravedust didn’t have to say “arguably” before “found them all.”
Honestly, I don’t see one being less evil than the other. . . It would have been harder for him to kill a lot mystics without some sort of loyal help (which I feel is the case in genocide v. serial killing–guy with army v. guy alone or with a couple of underlings).
I find the serial killer option more credible. Also, if he murdered a horde of Mystics, he probably involved a lot of other people while doing it, wich implies many other villany creeps, some with political power. I find the idea that he did it alone (probably with few underlings) more scary than a whole organization of betrayers.
Depends on your reason for finding them scary. Dahmer did it individucally and personally–he saw the face of each of his victims. Hitler, much like any military leader, did mass slaughter of ‘faceless masses’. His underlings on the other hand…
Poor misunderstood Hitler. I mean, yeah, he committed an attempted mass genocide of multiple cultures and ruined some cool symbols and mustache styles forever, but he was just-
No. I can’t even jokingly defend the guy. Not out of disgust, see, but, if I’m going to defend a mass murdering tyrant from history, it’s totally going to be Stalin. Dude had a BITCHIN’ mustache. Hitler started war with Russia out of sheer jealousy.
Perhaps when Gravedust says he “arguably found them all”, he means that these four are the only Savasi that could arguably be considered mystics. Maybe the others were corrupt, or didn’t possess the right qualities to be considered “true” mystics.
Also, we mustn’t forget that there is some kind of powerful magical force on the side of the savage races, which Gravedust likened to that of “half-forgotten gods”. Methinks the reason they shouldn’t be alive is because of this unknown player, since they could block Gravedust from communing with the dead. Could it be the cult from earlier, working for the savage rages at the behest of their god(s)? “Order of the Countless Limbs” sounds like Elder God worship to me, and that would tie together several existing plot threads, including the bit about “standing before gods” from the fortune-teller’s spiel.
What if they’re understood to be reincarnated, like the Dalai Lama? That is, there are only five at any given time; meeting the most recent incarnations would “arguably” mean meeting all of them.
Okay, now you’re just trying to send me into a grammar fueled berserker rage. Well, I won’t give you the satisfaction of a successful trolling, no si- BLARGHLEFLARGHLARGH!
Shut up alt-text, I’m sure there’s a perfectly logical explanation.
Sure: certain types of rocks store a type of energy that can separate souls from their bodies.
It all makes sense if you consider the implications of Agatha’s Law.
Kudos on the quoting of Agatha’s Law.
It should be said that Agatha’s Law is merely a rephrasing of Niven’s Inversion of Clark’s Third Law.
Yes, and that’s what makes it brilliant.
Any sufficiently advanced commentary is indistinguishable from bullshit.
It makes sense if you’re stoned.
Wow. I checked out a pretty sizable chunk of that a couple weeks ago when I had an itchin for some steam-punk. Didn’t realize it got awesome. Might have to move it a few notches up the reading queue.
Gee, thanks, Moe. Now I’ve got another damn comic I’m hooked on. :-)
There is, it’s called magic. Just because it disagrees with our laws of physics does not mean science can’t understand it. Science is about experimentation and if experiment proves something that we would call supernatural, it’s just as proven as gravity.
Agatha’s Law puts it perfectly, the TV Tropes page goes into further detail that shows how science can easily study phenomena we would call magic and even potentially improve on it. Science can discover things like if it matters what kind of newt for eye of newt or at what purity sulphur ceases to be sulphur ceases to be sulphur for the purposes of a fireball spell.
The only reason why ‘magic’ is unscientific in our world is because it’s not real. In fantasy worlds where it is real, magic is just another set of natural laws that can be studied pretty much like anything else.
Unless this is the Deathstalker series and you’re Owen Deathstalker. Or to a lesser extent John Taylor in Simon R. Green’s other series set in the Nightside.
Taylor’s power – To find anything. Even find things like the tiny flaw in reality that lets him unmake beings/negate their powers/what have you.
Owen’s power – SHAPE REALITY TO HIS WILL. Rules work against him? KICK REASON TO THE CURB AND MAKE YOUR OWN RULES.
Hell, the way his writing works well in that I’m fully willing to let him get away with it despite knowing, for a fact, that he can and WILL pull bullshit powers out of his ass at critical junctures so the good guys win (for a certain level of winning). Something about the ultraviolence is just COOL.
As long as I’m talking about rules, eff you Terry Goodkind. Richard Rahl pulls out bullcrap but lacks the finesse that Green imparts on his guys. Goddamned Gary Stu. HEY I NOTICED I’M RANTING. I STOP HERE.
If he can reshape reality, how can he ever lose at anything?
And yes, as long as magic has SOME kind of consistency (which is needed for any spells to be usable), it can be studied. People ALREADY DO study mysterious semi-nonsensical forces that can change when you look at them; there is an entire field of quantum physics.
Every time someone mentions magic all I can think of is this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs
Magnets! How do they work?
Thank you for saying this more concisely than I was about to.
From what I could make out of the general pattern of pre-modern legends about wizards, the thing about wizards is not that they know magic. The point is that they’re superhumanly wise. When Taliesin turns himself into a bird, it’s not that he’s using magic. He simply knows how to turn himself into a bird. The magic is that Taliesin somehow knows everything.
The problem with magic is that it’s all about dream-logic — in other words, it doesn’t actually make any sense. Look at fairy tales — the actual stories about fairies. Fairies are frightening and dangerous because they act in ways that don’t make any sense.
Once you get to D&D-style wizards who study for years in order to manipulate arcane energies in precise, predictable ways, you don’t have “magic” anymore, really — you’ve got alternate reality physics.
Magic, alternate reality physics, what’s the difference? Even the World of Darkness Mage reality warping-based-on-belief must have an underlying set of physical laws.
Hey, there’s plenty of substances in the real world that can separate souls from their bodies. It’s just that the process generally isn’t reversible.
Hell, I’d say that it would have happened in a moment even if he hadn’t used the stone. Gravedust is so impatient
I bet Grave man has taken in the souls of every Mystic. He’s like..SUPER MYSTIC holding the power of every single slain one..for vengence..and so he’ll repopulate the Dwarves..and they’ll all be reborn..by his seed!…yup
Something like ‘mystical dissemination’.
I’m fairly certain he was implying “mystical insemination”.
That’s what Best said to Frigg…
Wait …. wait …. wait ….. wait ….. wait ….. wait…. wait
Does that make him the God Emperor of the Dwarfkind?
Hey, as long as there are seeds involved I don’t care.
You mean he’s the Quick Ben of this reality?
Go eat crap and die, you beardless Oompah-Loompah.
wut?
I …THINK that’s in response to Iver?
IIRC, all Oompah-Loompahs were beardless.
I know. But he’s a beardless dwarf who looks like an Oompah-Loompah.
Wait…I thought beardless dwarves were gnomes…
Or is that just Bruenor’s take on them?
A beardless dwarf is actually just a fetish. There’s a small faction of perverted dwarves with very unsettling tastes in their women.
Then that means that Iver is a creepy sexual deviant? Sounds about right.
“So our next set of test results should show — ah, dammit! Magic got in the testing results again!”
Well that’s some grave news.
Deathly, to be sure.
Guess he did some soul searching, huh?
Aye, and returned in fair spirits.
Now, we should stop before this is done to death.
Science fact/point of order: we live in a world where perfectly ordinary, nonmagical rocks can separate souls from bodies. Big, heavy rocks have an easier time of it, but even little ones can get in on the act with a little extra physics.
May the Mass x Acceleration be with you!
We can also easily reverse many conditions that would have been viewed as death a scant hundred years ago, and would likely be viewed as such within the setting. Entering a state of temporary “death”, in which the spirit may wander, makes perfect sense.
Admittedly, how the rock does it is a question to ask. It’s one thing to establish possibilities, but logistics are another matter.
You fools! It’s not the rock! It’s the PICTURE he drew on the rock! We’ve been looking at the wrong part of the puzzle! IT’S ALL SO CLEAR NOW!
With a big enough rock, I could destroy the world!!!
Unfortunately, the one that best fits your specs is being used as part of a lever mechanism.
Whoa. Thor was Savasi? Who’da thunk!
And the Grim Reaper, although a lot more fleshy than usual.
Hey, don’t fear the reaper, man.
Haha Frigg and Best in the last panel was a nice touch.
Or rather, bad touch. Bad, bad touch.
Heheh, I didn’t even notice them. Nice touch indeed! :-D
Eek, didn’t even notice them. Thanks. Nice touch indeed, indeed.
Tiny little Best and tiny little Frigg are getting their tiny little freak-on. I laughed when I saw it.
I bet that’s her tomb they’re doing it on. “Eat hot procreation, death!”
Can’t touch this.
I will attempt to guess the names of the pictured mystics.
From the left, Sadscythe Gloomwaste, Sandshade Arrowaxe, Doomsledge Twinklestar and Grimstare Manskirt.
Almost correct, the third one’s name is ACTUALLY Hammerhammer Hammerhammer.
…middle name is Time?
Oh, stop!
Collaborate and listen?
Timelost is skating on thin ice…
If it becomes a problem, yo, he’ll solve it.
Isn’t that actually Hammerhammer HammerGlaiveHammer?
ohh… I see. You’re making the assumption that their chosen weapon is in their name. Like Deserthammer and his archery!
That’s actually foreshadowing for a later date when he’ll reveal an awesome hammer themed power he chooses not to use. It’s like Regal Bryant and his hands. He doesn’t use them, but nations would tremble if he did.
Like Gravedust and his ghost-whispering?
Yeah, kind of like that.
“Grimstare Manskirt.” XD
“Ha! Grimstare Manskirt! That’s the stupidest name I’ve ever heard!”
“Hey! What’s your name then?”
“Sobergaze Tanflirt”
“…”
“And my name is Sadlook Panhurt.”
“… You’re kidding me, right?”
“Yeah, you got me. Real name is He-Who-Stalks, known in some regions as simply ‘the Defiler’. The others just rhyme out of coincidence. ”
“Hahaha, you dwarves are hilarious, man!”
“Why? I’m not joking. I watch you sleep.”
“…” 0_o
The big (well, for a dwarf) chap with a hammer is boss.
Well, you’re always going to be in trouble if you declare Richii too early.
Lol. Mahjong. I know about it from about five episodes of Saki and some legend of Koizumi, so we may nod in mutual understanding of this great and noble game;)
Insider crowd. Ize een it.
Specifically, Japanese Mahjong.
Declaring Richii tends to involve locking yourself down to your current plans, which can make you very vulnerable – once you’re in richii, you can’ avoid dealing in to someone else’s hand if the tiles wish you to.
Now I’m curious . . . were there only five Savasi Mystics (Gravedust and four peers) before Iver began killing them or is this an artistic choice and showing hordes of them would be a pain (which I totally understand)? If there was only the five, Gravedust didn’t have to say “arguably” before “found them all.”
Get the feeling it’s an artistic choice, otherwise Iver would be less of a villain. Instead of a genocidal maniac, he’d be… a serial killer.
Honestly, I don’t see one being less evil than the other. . . It would have been harder for him to kill a lot mystics without some sort of loyal help (which I feel is the case in genocide v. serial killing–guy with army v. guy alone or with a couple of underlings).
I find the serial killer option more credible. Also, if he murdered a horde of Mystics, he probably involved a lot of other people while doing it, wich implies many other villany creeps, some with political power. I find the idea that he did it alone (probably with few underlings) more scary than a whole organization of betrayers.
So you find Dahmer more scary than Hitler?
I find them equally scary–I’d never want to meet either.
well, tbh, Dahmer was kinda of the kill randomly camp, so I’m more scared of him
hitler killed specific peoples, of wich I am neither, so…
both evil though
Depends on your reason for finding them scary. Dahmer did it individucally and personally–he saw the face of each of his victims. Hitler, much like any military leader, did mass slaughter of ‘faceless masses’. His underlings on the other hand…
Don’t be puttin’ down Hitler’s work, he’s been trying really hard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4lJ9vsZjMU&playnext=1&list=PL473847B9CF7B019C
Poor misunderstood Hitler. I mean, yeah, he committed an attempted mass genocide of multiple cultures and ruined some cool symbols and mustache styles forever, but he was just-
No. I can’t even jokingly defend the guy. Not out of disgust, see, but, if I’m going to defend a mass murdering tyrant from history, it’s totally going to be Stalin. Dude had a BITCHIN’ mustache. Hitler started war with Russia out of sheer jealousy.
My guess is that there were probably several dozen, those four were just the ones that felt like saying hi to the new guy.
Or those were the guys ‘Dust happen to already know.
Perhaps when Gravedust says he “arguably found them all”, he means that these four are the only Savasi that could arguably be considered mystics. Maybe the others were corrupt, or didn’t possess the right qualities to be considered “true” mystics.
Also, we mustn’t forget that there is some kind of powerful magical force on the side of the savage races, which Gravedust likened to that of “half-forgotten gods”. Methinks the reason they shouldn’t be alive is because of this unknown player, since they could block Gravedust from communing with the dead. Could it be the cult from earlier, working for the savage rages at the behest of their god(s)? “Order of the Countless Limbs” sounds like Elder God worship to me, and that would tie together several existing plot threads, including the bit about “standing before gods” from the fortune-teller’s spiel.
What if they’re understood to be reincarnated, like the Dalai Lama? That is, there are only five at any given time; meeting the most recent incarnations would “arguably” mean meeting all of them.
On the left, emo-death mystic.
On the right, a mystic whose only weapons are a steely glare and a deadly ‘stache.
Two cops on the edge, and then crime PUSHED.
Sythe goodnight, punk.
What’s that tiny thing in the left bottom — AAAAGH! The slashfic, it burns!
Pretty sure it’s hetfic? Since Frigg’s female and Best’s a douche dick male.
Ack, meant to write “Since Frigg’s female and Best’s
douchedickmale.”Oh, I get it, their Jedi.
No, THEY’RE Jedi.
No, they’re constellations.
SteelRaven got their Jedi, now give them back!
err, long night and no spell check
and no Thorn, I wont give ‘em back
Okay, now you’re just trying to send me into a grammar fueled berserker rage. Well, I won’t give you the satisfaction of a successful trolling, no si- BLARGHLEFLARGHLARGH!
its not that bad. your just taking everything out of proportion. i should stop right they’re – whom knows who your going to hurt in you’re furry.
FFFFFFFF- ARGHLERAWRRAWRRAWR!!!
Your mad? >:-)
/Like
/Agree
/Hatefuelledzerkergage!