Speaking personally, I’ve sometimes found that that the more a thing hurts, the more stoic I become. Papercut? String of obscenities. Getting compound arm fracture set? “Gahhhh…crap.”
Adrenaline. It’s a natural pain killer. That guy there just punched a knife through someones hand and then saw a gun pointed at him, meaning that there’s probably a lot of adrenaline in his system… so he’s not feeling all that much pain.
Could be wrong but I don’t think the bullet actually entered his thigh but rather grazed it and basically tore up the side a bit and went through. Not that it’s not bad or that it doesn’t hurt but it’s probably “mild” enough for someone like Berten to shrug it off until the altercation is resolved.
That is high pain threshold, it’s like when you stub your big toe, you say ‘ouch’ (not scream bloody murder) to indicate that you felt it but it’s no more than an inconvenience
I love JJ more then ever and hope that he’s in fact an immortal, and that more bullets will only ensure his blood of kings will keep him in this comic forever while queen plays in the background.
I’m just the pieces of the man I used to be
Too many blood is streaming down this leg of me
I’m far away from home
And I’ve been acting sloppy and that’s wrong
Oh, I feel like Carol didn’t tell the truth to me
About how dangerous Shanna would be
In my tangled state of mind
I’ve been looking back to find where I went wrong
This fucking gun will kill me
If I can’t change her mind
Shot between the nerd and his nerdy stuff behind
I’m headed for disaster ‘cos I didn’t read FANS
Shanna’s gun could kill me this time
I’m just the shadow of the man I used to be
And it seems like there’s no way out of this for me
I used to bring you sunshine
But you did bring me down, Ouch!
How would it be if you were shot out of your shoes
Can’t you see that it’s impossible to move
No there’s no making sense of it
Every way I go I’m bound to lose, oh no.
This fucking gun will kill me
I didn’t expect this at all
It’ll drain the power that’s in me
But won’t make me plead and scream and crawl
The pain will make me crazy
I’m the victim of my crime
Shanna’s gun could kill me this time
Yeah this gun could kill me
It’ll bring my life to’n end
But I’d prefer to kill you
Don’t you understand why?
You’re on your quest you sold your mom
I’m not your biggest FAN
I’d rather like to kill you
In the end
In the end.
Gladly, thanks. (Even if I’m especially happy about a +1 coming from T himself :-) )
If you enjoyed this, perhaps you want to look at the comments to chapter 26 page 10 and chapter 24 page 6? We’ve now done “Another Nun bites the dust” and “Arkerran Rhapsody”. And there’s this punnery on chapter 24 page 6 you could like… obviously many here like Queen.
The whole “employee of Hurricane black ops” thing is just a front. His ACTUAL goal in all of this is to kill Scipio’s player, take over her account, and be the manliest badass in two worlds at once.
You know, you might not have choked up like this if you’d desensitized yourself to this kind of behavior. If only there were some kind of simulated activity where you could get the experience of shooting at people without doing harm to real people’s organs.
If only.
ah, crap. did that bullet hit him where i THINK it hit him, or is that meant to be a grazing wound? im looking at it over and over, and thinking ‘shit. Shanna, you just hit an artery….this guys gonna be bled out in about 5 minutes and you’re gonna have a manslaughter charge added to your name because Carole sure as hell isnt going to admit Hurricane sicced a goon on a reporter.
Right, artery’s are protected by being on the inside of limbs. Inside of thigh, inside of the arm, middle of the neck. Also they are somewhat within muscle, only veins can be seen near the skin.
Body is well protected.
Even then if an artery is damaged it can still retract and then fold over itself. Veins will close almost instantly preventing bleeding, arteries are not always successful at self closing, depends on location and the wound.
thanks to ye both Benedikt and Chris. i admit, its been a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time since first aid training for work (for some reason, Pinkerton got a great idea that security guards with a little bit of first aid training were an acceptable substitute for full on Paramedics) admitted, i took to it faster than some with some first aid training id gotten as a kid, but that doesnt make me an expert.
i think what got me at first with the picture, is that the grazing shot was just a thin line at first, but the next panel, when JJ says “ouch” the bloodstain is spread throughout the thigh-portion (rather than just the original graze) suggesting the bullet actually penetrated the right to mid-section of the thigh, especially after just a moment or two, which leads to another idea, she may be running 9mm Hollow points, so a small entry wound is no biggie, its just when the bullet shreds (and i love the description i first remember reading about HP’s) “an entry wound the size of your navel, an exit wound the size of a frozen pot pie…”
I can see JJ faking not being hurt, taking it to a hospital, and Hurricane using the PR suggesting that Shanna is a nutcase who got someone ‘inadvertantly’ stabbed, and may be targeting ‘gamers’. (with her aversion to gaming as the motive.
and now that i look at it closely, maybe Jason touched up the art/wound a bit more as it doesnt seem as bad as it did last night. just going to have to wait and see.
That’s a funny place for an eye. Shanna, i think you missed. But it was a nice warning shot.
Or it was a nice shot to give him a chance to come at you. MAN, I hope she had more than one bullet!
Also, to be fair, if I were in her place I probably would have missed at point blank too. I’ve never fired a gun, (only a bow; huge difference) and I’ve never been in a position where my life and someone else’s is in danger. I would have so many things going through my head in those few seconds, about if I shoot, am I going to jail if it looks like it wasn’t in self defense, or what if I miss – is he coming at me? Or even the big one: am I really going to *kill* someone?
A very common mistake for people who don’t shoot a lot of guns is at the last second to tip the barrel down to try and compensate for the recoil which would explain the low shot. Add in poor discipline and they can push on the trigger to the left, leading towards “jerking the trigger” and causing a right handed person to shoot left. Or inverse, they squeeze too hard on the trigger and make it pull right, for some reason called “lobster claw”. Add “Jerking the trigger” to the expecting the recoil and the sudden twitch reflex to point the barrel down for the compensation, you just shot a man in the leg.
Shanna is almost a perfect example of what not to do as far as carrying/using a gun–and fortunately, she’s the exception as far as people legally carrying, not the norm.
1) She buys a gun but gets no training with it
2) She carries it concealed without a license (illegal most places), in her pocket without a holster (dangerous as the trigger is exposed)
3) She doesn’t learn about the legally and morally acceptable times to draw, point, and shoot a weapon at someone
4) She buys a fucking Kel-Tec–a gun manufacturer with a reputation for making less than reliable guns
As a guy with a carry license who carries a pistol every day, I wouldn’t have pulled the trigger here, first because there’s no immediate threat to my life or health, and second because Shanna is looking at major time behind bars for doing it. While Shanna could argue that this was a legal shoot–depending on what state this is taking place in–in that she was acting to stop a felony, the prosecutor would be right in asking why she entered the house instead of calling the police. She’s got no proof that a felony would be in progress that would compel her to step into the house (look up breaking and entering and you’ll see), and she didn’t see the assault with a deadly weapon, only the outcome–why, JJ could have been unlawfully attacked by the homeowner with that knife (state depending on if the homeowner would be allowed) and merely defended himself! Then there’s the fact that she was carrying a pistol concealed without a license, and she’s looking at some serious prison time. She’s not in a good position come trial.
If she shoots again, she’d almost certainly (and rightfully) be convicted of murder (or attempted murder if she misses), as she’s already stopped the threat (he’s on the ground and has no visible weapon).
Now, if she’d waited for him to attack her, she’d have a far better case and far more moral justification. Depending on the state (most of them), she’d be forced to try and run first if he charged at her, even with him being able to immediately gravely injure her if he caught up. Of course, JJ might have had more sense than that, had she done so, and waited at gunpoint while the cops were summoned–this would have been the smartest move. (Trying to take her gun is liable to get him shot, repeatedly.)
Note that I never said this broke suspension of disbelief. It’s certainly possible, if not normally probable, for things to go down this way.
As far as suspension of disbelief in general: I will happily suspend disbelief at a consistent premise (for example, how magic has been portrayed in the sepia world), but when things don’t logically flow either from that or in other ways, that’s when my suspension gets shattered. To use Pacific Rim a movie example: I’ll happily roll with being giant monsters coming out of the Pacific and attacking coastal cities, because that’s the premise, but trying to tell me that mankind would build giant robots to try and counter this doesn’t flow logically from that, especially when I can think of several ways that would far more cheaply and easily manage the problem (nuclear weapons for instance; as we’ve detonated over 500 test bombs in a small area of Nevada/New Mexico and it’s only caused +0.3% increase in local radiation, and the ocean does an even better job of dispersing pollutants, I sincerely doubt that we wouldn’t just use several nuclear weapons underwater on anything that emerged).
I think Guilded Age has done a fantastic job of keeping things consistent.
The home occupant is on the ground and badly injured, very clearly by JJ (by his own admission, and she was there and he was fine just moments ago), and he’s now rifling through the occupant’s stuff. He’s built like a brick, clearly very calm about committing very serious crimes, and inside a friend’s house injuring him and rifling through his stuff.
This is SERIOUS felony material, and the odds of getting a jury to convict are horrendous in any state in the union.
That said, in some states, with a local prosecutor who has a grudge or doesn’t like uppity peasants who get guns, she might have to go through the process (which is, as the old saying goes, the real punishment anyway).
But you are right about having the gun concealed without a license – that could indeed cause her some problems in most jurisdictions. That’s the one charge that is likely to stick, almost anywhere.
Also, I wonder about the neighbors reacting now. They may not react to the sound of broken glass, but a gun shot they should be calling the cops at least.
And hey, if Shanna decides to shoot him, microwave dinner, and check to see what’s good on Netflix, they might actually show up before she’s long gone. ;)
Speaking of the sound of a gunshot: shooting any firearm without ear protection or a silencer (either of which will drop the decibels produced to merely loud levels) will cause immediate and permanent ear damage. Doing it with many longarms outside will only cause minor damage; doing so indoors with any gun has the -potential- to IMMEDIATELY totally deafen you, and will almost certainly cause lasting tinnitus. JJ wouldn’t just be feeling the bullet–his ears would be ringing something fierce and he’d be feeling some additional shock from the explosive gases at that range.
If our authors have done their research, I would applaud their including a page where each of these two is trying to talk but can’t actually hear the other at first.
If you’ve ever shot a gun without ear protection (or gone to a loud concert), that ringing in your ears afterward is a sign of damage to the nerves in the ear. When the ringing stops, those nerves are fully dead, not healed. Currently, there’s no way to repair that damage. Some of my veteran friends have nasty levels of tinnitus (the constant ringing in the ears) from being near explosions or gunfire without ear protection, and they assure me it’s a constant pain in the butt to deal with.
Was in the local Air Training Corps for 2 years, never had any problems with ringing in the ears when did shooting practice (and that was inside a hanger)
Regardless of what he’s doing, many states take the line that citizens should only call the police when a crime is noticed, not attempt to take matters into their own hands, regardless of the situation. Even self defense against an unprovoked assault, when there was no opportunity for escape, is looked upon very unkindly by the authorities in more jurisdictions than you’d think.
One thing I am wondering what caliber that gun is. It might be set for a .38, a .45 would leave a bigger wound on his leg. A .22 isn’t likely to drop JJ if he charges Shanna seeing that she can’t aim at all.
As T kindly corrected me on, it’s a Glock 19, which means it’s a 9mm.
There was an FBI study fairly recently released that showed there was little difference in wound trauma delivered between the major calibers of handguns (that is, .38spl/.380/9mm/.40S&W/.45). You won’t really see a difference between a .38spl and a .45 visually–both are anemic compared to a shotgun or rifle.
Komrade, I won’t pretend to know the laws as well as you probably do, but two things are quite clear to us (and Shanna) in this scenario:
1) This man is more than capable of killing Shanna bare handed.
2) She has very good reason to think he intends to do so – not just according to what we readers know, but what she herself knows. You can’t possibly argue there is “no immediate threat to [Shanna’s] life or health”.
With all of that in place, whether or not she could prove it afterwards, the saying goes, “better to be tried by twelve than carried by six”.
Batguy, while I do agree with the saying you quote, legally (and frankly, morally) she’s put herself in a bind because she could have left the scene and/or called the police to have them arrest JJ for B&E/assault (and as she learned once she got inside, assault with a deadly weapon). She’s attempting to kill a man who, as far as we’ve seen, hasn’t actually made any threats or hostile actions against her–if we consider that he’s stopped his attack against Xan, this is attempted murder rather than defense of another. Again, he looks up in surprise, and she shoots–he didn’t try to attack, he didn’t even say he would kill her (which, btw, isn’t a legal reason to use lethal force). It’s not just legally but morally that this is bad. Dunno about you but I’d have a real hard time looking myself in the mirror after that.
Here’s a decent enough link on the matter: http://ccwvslaw.org/item/1412 It’s a little bit long but it breaks down pretty well why Shanna is legally up a creek without a paddle. Basically, your (1) is spot-on, but (2) isn’t nearly so evident. Then we get into the fact that she didn’t attempt to retreat, didn’t call the police first, had what is most likely an illegally concealed weapon (again, not certain, but I’d bet a fiver on it), and didn’t attempt to ask him to surrender.
Most states have ‘Good Samaritan’ laws, and a couple (Rhode Island in particular) actually can fine you for NOT coming to someone’s aid. I also note the guy in your link isn’t a lawyer.
Usually, Good Samaritan laws do not cover lethal force, though this is very much state dependent–what you see in Texas is not even close to what you’ll see in New Jersey. When lethal force is legal to be used in defense of another under state law, that is typically detailed specifically in the laws concerning use of force. And again, she could have easily covered Good Samaritan duties by calling the police, which is the response that many states would prefer their people do. JJ could just as easily have been handled by several uniformed officers and stuck in jail without any legal problems or risk to Shanna. I am for all people being able to defend themselves from violence by any means necessary, but her actions here are far from the smartest move she could have made. Folks who have seen violence on a regular basis, even if they emerge victorious, will let you know the truth: you win every fight you don’t get into.
The link I provided was a quick google search that I read over and posted as a short enough summary (hence “decent enough” rather than “here’s the actual code broken down state by state”). I’m also not a lawyer, I’ve just done a lot of research into this subject. That means of course that no comments I’ve given should be construed as actual legal advice; there are plenty of lawyers who would happily give you that.
This is very well-researched, but… the gun’s not a Kel-Tec. It’s a Glock 19: http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-29-page-6/ On that page, Shanna claims some experience with it, though she doesn’t mention how good she was or how many years ago that was. It doesn’t seem to have been very formal training, going by that remark.
The holster part’s pretty inarguable, and she’s obviously not in a very analytical frame of mind right now, but I’m not sure what proof there is one way or the other of her license to carry or lack thereof, unless I’ve missed something.
My mistake, I remembered his recommending the PF-9 (which is a Kel-Tec), and then 7 months later that was all I remembered about the gun store page. Thanks for the link, I couldn’t seem to find it to save my life.
By the way, as this IS meant to be a Glock 19, that hammer at the back of the gun ought to be edited out before this goes to book. Glocks don’t have hammers–not even an internal one that extends out when the trigger is pressed, as they’re striker-fired.
Without the moustache (which is probably a fake, anyway) he would look a bit like Destruction from Neil Gaiman’s Sandman. Why does he not have a talking dog companion?
Hm, I don’t remember Destruction being quite so buff. This guy is built more like Fenris the Wolf from the Lucifer spin-off (who does say “I am destruction, remember that” at one point.)
She definitely knows HOW to use it–her stance and grip on the gun easily demonstrate that, as both are showing good form on her part. That shaking is almost certainly from the adrenaline dump and the resulting loss of fine motor function.
I don’t know about anyone else… but I am kind of missing the adventure plot line. With all the Tomatogucci and Sepia world… I’m Jonesing for some Frigg and here GLOWY HAMMER SHIT!
Maybe it’s a good thing Shanna didn’t take the advice from last page comments & shoot him center-mass…she wanted to aim for his eye & hit his leg; if she’d been aiming for center-mass, she’d have completely missed.
JJ skips leg day, based on the bottom left panel.
You saw him yesterday, right? Dude’s built like a yield sign.
hahaha thank you for that description
I also heartily appreciate that description
He takes one in the leg and all he says is ouch? And I thought I had a high pain tolerance…
Speaking personally, I’ve sometimes found that that the more a thing hurts, the more stoic I become. Papercut? String of obscenities. Getting compound arm fracture set? “Gahhhh…crap.”
Adrenaline. It’s a natural pain killer. That guy there just punched a knife through someones hand and then saw a gun pointed at him, meaning that there’s probably a lot of adrenaline in his system… so he’s not feeling all that much pain.
^ This. Getting shot (or anything similar) often doesn’t hurt that much at first.. But he’ll be feeling it later, definite pain in the ass.
I thought she shot him in the thigh…
Could be wrong but I don’t think the bullet actually entered his thigh but rather grazed it and basically tore up the side a bit and went through. Not that it’s not bad or that it doesn’t hurt but it’s probably “mild” enough for someone like Berten to shrug it off until the altercation is resolved.
I can hear his pithy response:
That all you got? My daddy whipped me harder…
‘Tis but a scratch!
That is high pain threshold, it’s like when you stub your big toe, you say ‘ouch’ (not scream bloody murder) to indicate that you felt it but it’s no more than an inconvenience
Again, and again, and again, and again, and again…
This guy has to go. I can’t take anymore of his dialogue.
You know you want to, empty that clip into him.
I’m afraid I am your nemesis.
I love JJ more then ever and hope that he’s in fact an immortal, and that more bullets will only ensure his blood of kings will keep him in this comic forever while queen plays in the background.
I do love his, “I’ll beat you to a pulp but hey I’ll still be a gentleman about it” vibe. XD
“It’s just business. Nothing personal.”
He’s sincere about it.
As far as cold blooded thugs go I really like Berten too, hope it’s not the end of him.
Did someone say Queen?
I’m just the pieces of the man I used to be
Too many blood is streaming down this leg of me
I’m far away from home
And I’ve been acting sloppy and that’s wrong
Oh, I feel like Carol didn’t tell the truth to me
About how dangerous Shanna would be
In my tangled state of mind
I’ve been looking back to find where I went wrong
This fucking gun will kill me
If I can’t change her mind
Shot between the nerd and his nerdy stuff behind
I’m headed for disaster ‘cos I didn’t read FANS
Shanna’s gun could kill me this time
I’m just the shadow of the man I used to be
And it seems like there’s no way out of this for me
I used to bring you sunshine
But you did bring me down, Ouch!
How would it be if you were shot out of your shoes
Can’t you see that it’s impossible to move
No there’s no making sense of it
Every way I go I’m bound to lose, oh no.
This fucking gun will kill me
I didn’t expect this at all
It’ll drain the power that’s in me
But won’t make me plead and scream and crawl
The pain will make me crazy
I’m the victim of my crime
Shanna’s gun could kill me this time
Yeah this gun could kill me
It’ll bring my life to’n end
But I’d prefer to kill you
Don’t you understand why?
You’re on your quest you sold your mom
I’m not your biggest FAN
I’d rather like to kill you
In the end
In the end.
I’ll be the first to admit that this one is a little sloppy. But JJ was, too, wasn’t he?
I wish I had gold stars to give. Will you accept this tin substitute I carved out of a mountain dew can?
Gladly, thanks. (Even if I’m especially happy about a +1 coming from T himself :-) )
If you enjoyed this, perhaps you want to look at the comments to chapter 26 page 10 and chapter 24 page 6? We’ve now done “Another Nun bites the dust” and “Arkerran Rhapsody”. And there’s this punnery on chapter 24 page 6 you could like… obviously many here like Queen.
+1
Your +1s look a little diminutive next to Phil’s Gold Stars…
… but I’m sure you could do something grandiose if you put your mind to it. =D
I totally agree with you, Braineater. Shanna! Shoot him again! Shoot him until he is gone from this world and the next!
Huge laceration in his leg and all he says is “ouch”. Wonder how he’d take a bullet to something vital?
He takes two bullets with a glass of water every night before bed for vitality.
At least he wouldn’t suffer from low-iron blood…Oh, wait! That would give him lead poisoning!
As for me, I’m allergic to getting shot at. I develop reactions such as large, red splotches, oozing sores & likely fainting spells.
The whole “employee of Hurricane black ops” thing is just a front. His ACTUAL goal in all of this is to kill Scipio’s player, take over her account, and be the manliest badass in two worlds at once.
Spoilers: His mustache is detachable and acts just like a boomerang.
Spoilers: The mustache is actually JJ and the rest is just a robot it wears.
An unimpressive shot but at least she shot the guy.
Sadly it wasn’t logged in his body and the shot war fired at his right leg which could lead to interesting bullet ricochet.
Femoral artery. It’s a thing.
That bullet wound is nowhere near his femoral artery.
True that.
yea, its on the inside of the leg
Yep. This is definitely the time to apply the page from the 80s Atlanta Police Manual: “Bang bang bang stop or I’ll shoot!”
That joke isn’t funny anymore. (I remember when it was.)
It’s too close to home, and it’s too near the (leg) bone.
I don’t know why, but he reminds me of Will of Faans in the second panel.
Correction: he reminds you of Will’s dad.
So, Shanna: How do you like reality?
You know, you might not have choked up like this if you’d desensitized yourself to this kind of behavior. If only there were some kind of simulated activity where you could get the experience of shooting at people without doing harm to real people’s organs.
If only.
Two to the head. Two to the heart. Don’t kill the kid, or it’s “Mission Failed”, and you’ll have to start over from the bus station.
Wait…
Looks like all she really did is graze him, rather putting the round into the leg.
Yep.
But how did it graze at that *upward* angle, from where she presumably shot while standing up?
Hm, maybe he was squatting at the desk.
She’s really not that tall, and JJ is quite tall.
He wouldn’t immediately drop like that if she’d just grazed him. I’m guessing she lucked out and hit bone.
“Don’t shoot him….it’ll just make him mad.”
How much force does it take to pull a knife out of a hand? Xan or Shanna could use that on Berten…
Shanna never pulled the trigger. She just yelled “BLAM”, and apparently that’s the holy word that smites Berten’s species of demon.
Finally I get an excuse to quote this!
http://www.theonion.com/articles/shotgun-blast-to-abdomen-just-pisses-wilford-briml,9512/
ah, crap. did that bullet hit him where i THINK it hit him, or is that meant to be a grazing wound? im looking at it over and over, and thinking ‘shit. Shanna, you just hit an artery….this guys gonna be bled out in about 5 minutes and you’re gonna have a manslaughter charge added to your name because Carole sure as hell isnt going to admit Hurricane sicced a goon on a reporter.
and Shanna’s story started off so well.
Don’t think so. It’s the outside of the leg. Artery – yes. Bleeding out in 5 minutes – not necessarily.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery
Right, artery’s are protected by being on the inside of limbs. Inside of thigh, inside of the arm, middle of the neck. Also they are somewhat within muscle, only veins can be seen near the skin.
Body is well protected.
Even then if an artery is damaged it can still retract and then fold over itself. Veins will close almost instantly preventing bleeding, arteries are not always successful at self closing, depends on location and the wound.
thanks to ye both Benedikt and Chris. i admit, its been a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time since first aid training for work (for some reason, Pinkerton got a great idea that security guards with a little bit of first aid training were an acceptable substitute for full on Paramedics) admitted, i took to it faster than some with some first aid training id gotten as a kid, but that doesnt make me an expert.
i think what got me at first with the picture, is that the grazing shot was just a thin line at first, but the next panel, when JJ says “ouch” the bloodstain is spread throughout the thigh-portion (rather than just the original graze) suggesting the bullet actually penetrated the right to mid-section of the thigh, especially after just a moment or two, which leads to another idea, she may be running 9mm Hollow points, so a small entry wound is no biggie, its just when the bullet shreds (and i love the description i first remember reading about HP’s) “an entry wound the size of your navel, an exit wound the size of a frozen pot pie…”
I can see JJ faking not being hurt, taking it to a hospital, and Hurricane using the PR suggesting that Shanna is a nutcase who got someone ‘inadvertantly’ stabbed, and may be targeting ‘gamers’. (with her aversion to gaming as the motive.
and now that i look at it closely, maybe Jason touched up the art/wound a bit more as it doesnt seem as bad as it did last night. just going to have to wait and see.
again, T, Jason, Phil, story looks great!
I like her more and more with every page :D
“Hey Shanna, my eyes are up here!”
I mean come on, show some decency.
Idiot
‘Tis but a flesh wound.
I have a deadly suspicion that Shanna is holding the gun in such a way that would cause slide bite.
Doubt it. If she did, she’d probably already be screaming bloody murder. My understanding is slide bite hurts very much.
That’s a funny place for an eye. Shanna, i think you missed. But it was a nice warning shot.
Or it was a nice shot to give him a chance to come at you. MAN, I hope she had more than one bullet!
Also, to be fair, if I were in her place I probably would have missed at point blank too. I’ve never fired a gun, (only a bow; huge difference) and I’ve never been in a position where my life and someone else’s is in danger. I would have so many things going through my head in those few seconds, about if I shoot, am I going to jail if it looks like it wasn’t in self defense, or what if I miss – is he coming at me? Or even the big one: am I really going to *kill* someone?
Firing a gun at close range is similar to pointing your finger, as long as you have a solid grip on the gun.
Eep. Odds are good that in his line of work he’ll have a gun tucked away behind his back / above his boot too…
Feh. Gun rule #1: if you aren’t willing to kill someone don’t point a gun at them.
I think she was trying, but I’m guessing at her stress level at present her training went right out the window. Combine that with those trembly hands…
A very common mistake for people who don’t shoot a lot of guns is at the last second to tip the barrel down to try and compensate for the recoil which would explain the low shot. Add in poor discipline and they can push on the trigger to the left, leading towards “jerking the trigger” and causing a right handed person to shoot left. Or inverse, they squeeze too hard on the trigger and make it pull right, for some reason called “lobster claw”. Add “Jerking the trigger” to the expecting the recoil and the sudden twitch reflex to point the barrel down for the compensation, you just shot a man in the leg.
Shanna is almost a perfect example of what not to do as far as carrying/using a gun–and fortunately, she’s the exception as far as people legally carrying, not the norm.
1) She buys a gun but gets no training with it
2) She carries it concealed without a license (illegal most places), in her pocket without a holster (dangerous as the trigger is exposed)
3) She doesn’t learn about the legally and morally acceptable times to draw, point, and shoot a weapon at someone
4) She buys a fucking Kel-Tec–a gun manufacturer with a reputation for making less than reliable guns
As a guy with a carry license who carries a pistol every day, I wouldn’t have pulled the trigger here, first because there’s no immediate threat to my life or health, and second because Shanna is looking at major time behind bars for doing it. While Shanna could argue that this was a legal shoot–depending on what state this is taking place in–in that she was acting to stop a felony, the prosecutor would be right in asking why she entered the house instead of calling the police. She’s got no proof that a felony would be in progress that would compel her to step into the house (look up breaking and entering and you’ll see), and she didn’t see the assault with a deadly weapon, only the outcome–why, JJ could have been unlawfully attacked by the homeowner with that knife (state depending on if the homeowner would be allowed) and merely defended himself! Then there’s the fact that she was carrying a pistol concealed without a license, and she’s looking at some serious prison time. She’s not in a good position come trial.
If she shoots again, she’d almost certainly (and rightfully) be convicted of murder (or attempted murder if she misses), as she’s already stopped the threat (he’s on the ground and has no visible weapon).
Now, if she’d waited for him to attack her, she’d have a far better case and far more moral justification. Depending on the state (most of them), she’d be forced to try and run first if he charged at her, even with him being able to immediately gravely injure her if he caught up. Of course, JJ might have had more sense than that, had she done so, and waited at gunpoint while the cops were summoned–this would have been the smartest move. (Trying to take her gun is liable to get him shot, repeatedly.)
The idea that there are people in a video game VR and HR uses magic in the “real” sepia world but this breaks the suspension of disbelief for you?
Note that I never said this broke suspension of disbelief. It’s certainly possible, if not normally probable, for things to go down this way.
As far as suspension of disbelief in general: I will happily suspend disbelief at a consistent premise (for example, how magic has been portrayed in the sepia world), but when things don’t logically flow either from that or in other ways, that’s when my suspension gets shattered. To use Pacific Rim a movie example: I’ll happily roll with being giant monsters coming out of the Pacific and attacking coastal cities, because that’s the premise, but trying to tell me that mankind would build giant robots to try and counter this doesn’t flow logically from that, especially when I can think of several ways that would far more cheaply and easily manage the problem (nuclear weapons for instance; as we’ve detonated over 500 test bombs in a small area of Nevada/New Mexico and it’s only caused +0.3% increase in local radiation, and the ocean does an even better job of dispersing pollutants, I sincerely doubt that we wouldn’t just use several nuclear weapons underwater on anything that emerged).
I think Guilded Age has done a fantastic job of keeping things consistent.
The home occupant is on the ground and badly injured, very clearly by JJ (by his own admission, and she was there and he was fine just moments ago), and he’s now rifling through the occupant’s stuff. He’s built like a brick, clearly very calm about committing very serious crimes, and inside a friend’s house injuring him and rifling through his stuff.
This is SERIOUS felony material, and the odds of getting a jury to convict are horrendous in any state in the union.
That said, in some states, with a local prosecutor who has a grudge or doesn’t like uppity peasants who get guns, she might have to go through the process (which is, as the old saying goes, the real punishment anyway).
But you are right about having the gun concealed without a license – that could indeed cause her some problems in most jurisdictions. That’s the one charge that is likely to stick, almost anywhere.
Also, I wonder about the neighbors reacting now. They may not react to the sound of broken glass, but a gun shot they should be calling the cops at least.
And hey, if Shanna decides to shoot him, microwave dinner, and check to see what’s good on Netflix, they might actually show up before she’s long gone. ;)
Speaking of the sound of a gunshot: shooting any firearm without ear protection or a silencer (either of which will drop the decibels produced to merely loud levels) will cause immediate and permanent ear damage. Doing it with many longarms outside will only cause minor damage; doing so indoors with any gun has the -potential- to IMMEDIATELY totally deafen you, and will almost certainly cause lasting tinnitus. JJ wouldn’t just be feeling the bullet–his ears would be ringing something fierce and he’d be feeling some additional shock from the explosive gases at that range.
If our authors have done their research, I would applaud their including a page where each of these two is trying to talk but can’t actually hear the other at first.
All can say to your statement is: “Oh utter ball-sucking shit!”
It’s true though. Here, you can see for yourself: http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
If you’ve ever shot a gun without ear protection (or gone to a loud concert), that ringing in your ears afterward is a sign of damage to the nerves in the ear. When the ringing stops, those nerves are fully dead, not healed. Currently, there’s no way to repair that damage. Some of my veteran friends have nasty levels of tinnitus (the constant ringing in the ears) from being near explosions or gunfire without ear protection, and they assure me it’s a constant pain in the butt to deal with.
Was in the local Air Training Corps for 2 years, never had any problems with ringing in the ears when did shooting practice (and that was inside a hanger)
WHAT? I COULDN’T HEAR YOU OVER HOW TRUE THAT IS.
Regardless of what he’s doing, many states take the line that citizens should only call the police when a crime is noticed, not attempt to take matters into their own hands, regardless of the situation. Even self defense against an unprovoked assault, when there was no opportunity for escape, is looked upon very unkindly by the authorities in more jurisdictions than you’d think.
One thing I am wondering what caliber that gun is. It might be set for a .38, a .45 would leave a bigger wound on his leg. A .22 isn’t likely to drop JJ if he charges Shanna seeing that she can’t aim at all.
As T kindly corrected me on, it’s a Glock 19, which means it’s a 9mm.
There was an FBI study fairly recently released that showed there was little difference in wound trauma delivered between the major calibers of handguns (that is, .38spl/.380/9mm/.40S&W/.45). You won’t really see a difference between a .38spl and a .45 visually–both are anemic compared to a shotgun or rifle.
Komrade, I won’t pretend to know the laws as well as you probably do, but two things are quite clear to us (and Shanna) in this scenario:
1) This man is more than capable of killing Shanna bare handed.
2) She has very good reason to think he intends to do so – not just according to what we readers know, but what she herself knows. You can’t possibly argue there is “no immediate threat to [Shanna’s] life or health”.
With all of that in place, whether or not she could prove it afterwards, the saying goes, “better to be tried by twelve than carried by six”.
Batguy, while I do agree with the saying you quote, legally (and frankly, morally) she’s put herself in a bind because she could have left the scene and/or called the police to have them arrest JJ for B&E/assault (and as she learned once she got inside, assault with a deadly weapon). She’s attempting to kill a man who, as far as we’ve seen, hasn’t actually made any threats or hostile actions against her–if we consider that he’s stopped his attack against Xan, this is attempted murder rather than defense of another. Again, he looks up in surprise, and she shoots–he didn’t try to attack, he didn’t even say he would kill her (which, btw, isn’t a legal reason to use lethal force). It’s not just legally but morally that this is bad. Dunno about you but I’d have a real hard time looking myself in the mirror after that.
Here’s a decent enough link on the matter: http://ccwvslaw.org/item/1412 It’s a little bit long but it breaks down pretty well why Shanna is legally up a creek without a paddle. Basically, your (1) is spot-on, but (2) isn’t nearly so evident. Then we get into the fact that she didn’t attempt to retreat, didn’t call the police first, had what is most likely an illegally concealed weapon (again, not certain, but I’d bet a fiver on it), and didn’t attempt to ask him to surrender.
Most states have ‘Good Samaritan’ laws, and a couple (Rhode Island in particular) actually can fine you for NOT coming to someone’s aid. I also note the guy in your link isn’t a lawyer.
Usually, Good Samaritan laws do not cover lethal force, though this is very much state dependent–what you see in Texas is not even close to what you’ll see in New Jersey. When lethal force is legal to be used in defense of another under state law, that is typically detailed specifically in the laws concerning use of force. And again, she could have easily covered Good Samaritan duties by calling the police, which is the response that many states would prefer their people do. JJ could just as easily have been handled by several uniformed officers and stuck in jail without any legal problems or risk to Shanna. I am for all people being able to defend themselves from violence by any means necessary, but her actions here are far from the smartest move she could have made. Folks who have seen violence on a regular basis, even if they emerge victorious, will let you know the truth: you win every fight you don’t get into.
The link I provided was a quick google search that I read over and posted as a short enough summary (hence “decent enough” rather than “here’s the actual code broken down state by state”). I’m also not a lawyer, I’ve just done a lot of research into this subject. That means of course that no comments I’ve given should be construed as actual legal advice; there are plenty of lawyers who would happily give you that.
This is very well-researched, but… the gun’s not a Kel-Tec. It’s a Glock 19: http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-29-page-6/ On that page, Shanna claims some experience with it, though she doesn’t mention how good she was or how many years ago that was. It doesn’t seem to have been very formal training, going by that remark.
The holster part’s pretty inarguable, and she’s obviously not in a very analytical frame of mind right now, but I’m not sure what proof there is one way or the other of her license to carry or lack thereof, unless I’ve missed something.
My mistake, I remembered his recommending the PF-9 (which is a Kel-Tec), and then 7 months later that was all I remembered about the gun store page. Thanks for the link, I couldn’t seem to find it to save my life.
No probs. I tend to rely on the character tags to dig up stuff like that. A fun trick I discovered a while back is that you can cross-reference them to find, for instance, pages where the heroes of our first scene all appear together (http://guildedage.net/tag/frigg+gravedust+bandit+byron+syrnj/) or Shanna’s confrontation with Carol (http://guildedage.net/tag/shanna+carol/).
Wow, this is actually quite great! Thanks for the info.
By the way, as this IS meant to be a Glock 19, that hammer at the back of the gun ought to be edited out before this goes to book. Glocks don’t have hammers–not even an internal one that extends out when the trigger is pressed, as they’re striker-fired.
Here is a picture to show what I mean: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/GLOCK_19.JPG
What? I can’t be the only person that heard panel 2 in Daffy Duck’s voice, can I? Or am I just the first willing to admit it?
Nope, can hear it as well
Weird. I am tempted to make a “hey, eyes up here” joke.
Without the moustache (which is probably a fake, anyway) he would look a bit like Destruction from Neil Gaiman’s Sandman. Why does he not have a talking dog companion?
Hm, I don’t remember Destruction being quite so buff. This guy is built more like Fenris the Wolf from the Lucifer spin-off (who does say “I am destruction, remember that” at one point.)
Well, question answered, with regards to whether Shanna ever bothered to learn how to use a gun.
That would be a ‘no’?
According to a survey, NYC cops hit their targets one third of the time. So, yeah, rarely training journo with a gun is going to be all marksman.
She definitely knows HOW to use it–her stance and grip on the gun easily demonstrate that, as both are showing good form on her part. That shaking is almost certainly from the adrenaline dump and the resulting loss of fine motor function.
Jeez, Shanna, you couldn’t hit that massive chest from, what, ten feet away? Oh well, at least she had the ovaries to go back and try.
And now Robin is going to pull her ovaries out through her nose
Told you it would only make him mad
Near misses/Barely hits do tend to just make people made. Had she properly shot him however…
I don’t know about anyone else… but I am kind of missing the adventure plot line. With all the Tomatogucci and Sepia world… I’m Jonesing for some Frigg and here GLOWY HAMMER SHIT!
Maybe it’s a good thing Shanna didn’t take the advice from last page comments & shoot him center-mass…she wanted to aim for his eye & hit his leg; if she’d been aiming for center-mass, she’d have completely missed.
Or her shakey gun technique would have grazed his balls instead. Shakey hand gun is hard to predict.