Makes sense. Each of them, regardless of the outcome, wants the Rebellion unified after the duel. If either demonizes the other publicly, then people will take sides mentally, and the movement will split upon the duel’s completion. By speaking this way, each communicates the desire for the Rebellion to unite behind one leader, even if battle decides their end.
What a great gambit now though, huh? “Let us begin, Penk – wait! Devil! Daemon! He has the madness! Get me out of here! Archers – Purge him from our lands!”
Yeah, but Harky’s a good guy. He wouldn’t do that. Come to think of it, every single villainous thing he’s done was also done by a member of the main heroes.
I don’t recall the Peacemakers ever trying to frame a 3rd party for the slaughter of village, nor attacking said 3rd party and trying to steal the powers of their deity.
Bandit has let other people take the fall for her stuff, Byron has slaughtered people (humans while berserking, and kobold refugees), and Syr’nj stole the power of a god and wielded it in anger.
You consider stealing a powerful military and cultural asset of your enemy to be an unwarranted war crime? I’m not so sentimental about some things just because people tagged it with the “god” label.
Harky never framed anyone else for the slaughter of a village; it was implied that it was done because of the berserker curse, thus making it a cultist act.
I guess it’s dimly possible he ordered a misdirection after a berserker outbreak in order to keep Gastonia and the wood elves at each others’ throats, but, eh. Really just seems more like a cultist action than anything else.
We don’t know it’s necessarily to the death. I mean, they’re trolls, so “eat the loser” may be part of the tradition. But it’s a ritual of succession, not a trial or slighted honor. It’s entirely voluntary going in, and I think either would happily accept concession from the other if that’s legal for them once it’s begun.
This. One is speaking as the Avatar of their god. The other is wrong, and there is one very divine-approved way to demonstrate unquestionably just who that god favors at the moment.
That said, it is evidence of how he feels about *dwarves* a bit more than trolls. Plus, that did not involve a direct conflict between two major, declared followers.
A little of that, but also, I think, just what they’re saying. He knows, whether he or Penk is right, that they can’t have 2 Warchiefs. So this method, which both removes the wrong warchief and shows which is right, is best for the continued survival of their race, whoever wins.
I think part of it is that Harky knows on some level that he’s also stuck in the past and so considers himself fallible. That no matter what, he can’t change his hatred or opinion of humans. He also consistently shows respect for posterity and mentions being a mentor as one of the things he would’ve liked to have been if he weren’t war chief.
You draw an odd line for “humanoid.” Fur is a point of exclusion, I guess? And even then, that’s not true of Caneghem. He’s just caught between pragmatism and terror.
I suspect that Iver is going to get the wake up call that Trolls don’t actually care about that sort of thing. Even (or perhaps especially) in ancient times it wasn’t as universally taboo as some people would lead you to believe.
Since it was Penk who brought up “in accordance to our nature”, I have the feeling that Iver’s snide comment is coming from a widespread scorn of everything troll-like (or even everything not-dwarfdom-like), it’s not just Harky’s choice of a mate.
I suspect he is an equal-opportunity bigot.
I read the last panel, and I was all “Iver? Really? Now?! In the middle of their sacred ritual beatdown preliminaries, now you’re going to interrupt and be a rude boy?” Iver has no sense.
That comment wasn’t for public consumption though. Iver is a politician and it’s not something he’d ever say in the middle of a sacred ritual except to himself.
He was coaxing Magda to eliminate Harky for that reason, but will he like Penk’s detente with the humans? Then again that conversation seems to have been between Harky, Penk, and Gondolessa so maybe he doesn’t know.
…you know, this is a long shot, but what if Iver had the winner killed in the arena and blamed it on the Peacekeepers? Then he could rally everyone behind him claiming humans are teh evilz.
My question is what the heck is Pena going to do… Lay down some serious drum beats to make Harry dance himself to death?!? Hell of a way to go… death by “Beat-off!”
Isn’t Harky the one that gave Penk a potshot punch the last time he even suggested this course of action? Now he’s being all respectful and letting him have an honest go of proving himself.
it was stated above, but Harky and Penk agree that their people can’t survive devision. So this needs to go down in a way that minimizes hard feelings for the aftermath. Plus, there is the religious component to this. Two avatar’s of the same god are fighting. If Harky loses (and all this pageantry makes it clear that he at least considers it a possibility), that means his god really does approve of Penk’s course of action and thus Penk’s way is the right way. Harky can live with that happening, even if he’d can’t live with it.
You know, Iver, “unfortunate accident” is natural causes for dwarven nobles. And those you’ve pissed off are those with control over magma. Just saying.
I actually have, but I don’t think I’ve ever gotten up to the noble stage very often — it’s tied to population size. And I like my forts on the smallish end of things.
That said, they’re pretty easy to ignore. Nobles make demands but the only consequence of not fulfilling them is that they become unhappy. Which, woo-dee-doo, is irrelevant to the rest of my popuulation.
I have to add my agreement in with the others above about how absolutely civil they’re being without smacktalking each other and only laying down what’s happening, respectfully, and how much I totally love it.
And then there’s Iver, who I didn’t even remember what the heck he was talking about until reading the comments. Man, I hope it backfires on him terribly since I think he mistakenly thinks his original “plan” for Magda to turn Penk on Harky has somehow worked and that’s actually what this fight’s about.
Even if they do unite against Iver, I do think they’ll still need to duke it out between themselves afterwards.
Is it just me, or do all the silhouettes in the entry way in the third panel all look like dwarves?
And none in the stadium’s actual audience…
Unless there was a precedent set for this the last time there was action in this stadium, combined with the “Evil Iver” look it feels like something other than the duel is about to go down.
Although Im not sure how he would get away with it with so many on lookers. I feel like if they tried something here it would just result in the Worlds Rebellion falling apart. (unless thats the plan??)
Good catch, yeah, those are Dwarves, Iver and his soldiers, specifically, him in the last panel is him in the entryway. He’s going to kill either them both or the victor and declare himself Warlord.
I mean thats what the plan looks like(assuming there even is a plan and we’re not just imagining things), but I just don’t see it working.
From what I understand, Harky is mad respected by the crowd and Penk carries a pretty good amount of respect himself at this point. And after that speech I don’t see the crowd being anything but even more approving of them. I mean it was a speech dripping with mutual respect and implied a coming display of both might and honorable resolution. I feel like the crowd would be exceptionally peeved at whatever or whoever interrupts it.
I feel like interrupting it and trying to declare himself Warlord, would backfire horribly for him. He would need a scapegoat, tho admitably there happens to be a whole group of potential scapegoats there at the moment…
I love how respectful Harky and Penk are being towards each other even as they prepare to square off for a trial by combat.
Right? They aren’t even talking up their own side of the argument, just laying out that this is what it’s come down to.
Smarter than most, that’s for sure.
Although that didn’t stop Harky from taking a potshot at humans (and thus, in a way, Penk’s argument).
Then again, Penk never argued that anybody needed to *like* humans. Just generally less killing in both directions.
The crowd starts to cheer “less passive-aggressive, more pay-per-view-aggressive”
Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
KISS! KISS! KISS! (I’m sorry it was the perfect follow-up)
Makes sense. Each of them, regardless of the outcome, wants the Rebellion unified after the duel. If either demonizes the other publicly, then people will take sides mentally, and the movement will split upon the duel’s completion. By speaking this way, each communicates the desire for the Rebellion to unite behind one leader, even if battle decides their end.
This seems ritualistic. Tailored to the situation, but ritual.
The last time we saw Harky battle someone in the arena, it ended with him ordering the audience to fight instead of him.
I suspect this is different because it’s a matter of politics and honor.
Also because he wasn’t afraid of losing, he was afraid of the Berserker Curse infecting him.
What a great gambit now though, huh? “Let us begin, Penk – wait! Devil! Daemon! He has the madness! Get me out of here! Archers – Purge him from our lands!”
Yeah, but Harky’s a good guy. He wouldn’t do that. Come to think of it, every single villainous thing he’s done was also done by a member of the main heroes.
careful, best and bandit are among the main heroes.
Oh god did Harky knock up a whole town? And then steal someones hat?!?! The Fiend!
I don’t recall the Peacemakers ever trying to frame a 3rd party for the slaughter of village, nor attacking said 3rd party and trying to steal the powers of their deity.
Harky might not be as big a scum bag as Iver or Iwatani or his son, but I wouldn’t call him a good guy.
Bandit has let other people take the fall for her stuff, Byron has slaughtered people (humans while berserking, and kobold refugees), and Syr’nj stole the power of a god and wielded it in anger.
You consider stealing a powerful military and cultural asset of your enemy to be an unwarranted war crime? I’m not so sentimental about some things just because people tagged it with the “god” label.
The Elves weren’t the enemies of the World rebellion at the time, they were neutral and nobody knew Syrng was a princess.
Harky never framed anyone else for the slaughter of a village; it was implied that it was done because of the berserker curse, thus making it a cultist act.
I guess it’s dimly possible he ordered a misdirection after a berserker outbreak in order to keep Gastonia and the wood elves at each others’ throats, but, eh. Really just seems more like a cultist action than anything else.
Oooof, Gondolessa’s going to be a widow by the end of this.
Widower?
Widower than what?
than before the trial.
We don’t know it’s necessarily to the death. I mean, they’re trolls, so “eat the loser” may be part of the tradition. But it’s a ritual of succession, not a trial or slighted honor. It’s entirely voluntary going in, and I think either would happily accept concession from the other if that’s legal for them once it’s begun.
Wouldn’t “Tectonicus wills it through me” be an unbeatable argument from Penk to Harky?
“Prove it.”
This. One is speaking as the Avatar of their god. The other is wrong, and there is one very divine-approved way to demonstrate unquestionably just who that god favors at the moment.
**Points to wall full of mountain arms**
*laughs heartily*
That said, it is evidence of how he feels about *dwarves* a bit more than trolls. Plus, that did not involve a direct conflict between two major, declared followers.
Harky likely views Penk like as unto an unfaithful fiancée- “it’s over, babe. Gimme back the diamond (belly stone) I gave you.”
No, I doubt it. He probably knows that Penk is right, he just needs to make it official so no-one can argue it after Penk takes charge.
A little of that, but also, I think, just what they’re saying. He knows, whether he or Penk is right, that they can’t have 2 Warchiefs. So this method, which both removes the wrong warchief and shows which is right, is best for the continued survival of their race, whoever wins.
I think part of it is that Harky knows on some level that he’s also stuck in the past and so considers himself fallible. That no matter what, he can’t change his hatred or opinion of humans. He also consistently shows respect for posterity and mentions being a mentor as one of the things he would’ve liked to have been if he weren’t war chief.
No, but it’d be a handy way to start a schism.
Is Iver still on about that? You’d think he would satisfy himself with knowing at least one of these two is gonna be dead soon.
In this comic, all humanoid political leaders are evil and power-mad (except for the gnomish leader).
He’s a Gnome. He’s mad… for science! Mad science!
He’s a dwarf, not a gnome.
He’s talking about Dean Reynolds…who is indeed a gnome.
Canegham isn’t mad for power. But then again, he’s a pretty extreme isolationist. Sky cities for Sky Elves only.
You draw an odd line for “humanoid.” Fur is a point of exclusion, I guess? And even then, that’s not true of Caneghem. He’s just caught between pragmatism and terror.
I suspect that Iver is going to get the wake up call that Trolls don’t actually care about that sort of thing. Even (or perhaps especially) in ancient times it wasn’t as universally taboo as some people would lead you to believe.
Oh, THANKS. I was completely befuzzled at what Iver was referring to, but you made it clear.
Since it was Penk who brought up “in accordance to our nature”, I have the feeling that Iver’s snide comment is coming from a widespread scorn of everything troll-like (or even everything not-dwarfdom-like), it’s not just Harky’s choice of a mate.
I suspect he is an equal-opportunity bigot.
I read the last panel, and I was all “Iver? Really? Now?! In the middle of their sacred ritual beatdown preliminaries, now you’re going to interrupt and be a rude boy?” Iver has no sense.
That comment wasn’t for public consumption though. Iver is a politician and it’s not something he’d ever say in the middle of a sacred ritual except to himself.
He was coaxing Magda to eliminate Harky for that reason, but will he like Penk’s detente with the humans? Then again that conversation seems to have been between Harky, Penk, and Gondolessa so maybe he doesn’t know.
I suspect Iver thinks he can manipulate Penk better than he can manipulate Harky.
y’know I didn’t even think it was about that until I read this comment…
And from this point on, the term “Iverbrows” shall be used to describe that particular type of evil face.
I expect that the person who shuts that line of conversation down will either be Penk or Magda.
“Its shit like that in the second to last panel that makes me have to do this”
Settle it in accordance with their nature? Why am I expecting a Rick Roll instead of a duel?
Also Iver’s gone drow.
Iver’s gone full Palpatine.
“I AM THE SENATE”
Iver will be about to finish off Penk when the mortally wounded Harky tosses him into a volcano.
“And what could be more natural… than… a DANCE-OFF!!!”
I’m glad I wasn’t drinking because I would’ve spit it all over my screen as I laughed.
Or maybe a Scrapbooking contest!
I mean, they are Trolls… with brightly colored stick-uppy hair… and one of them has a gem in his belly button…
I can’t wait till they pirouette, and their hair sticks out every which way.
Iver thinks this duel is the culmination of his earlier efforts to get Magda to manipulate Penk into turning against Harky in the name of homophobia.
Which means Iver may be, unknowingly, about to supplant the duel for something that will unite Harky and Penk against him.
Please let Iver get an arrow in the neck. Come on, Gravey. Come on. You can do it. One through the neck. Please?
…you know, this is a long shot, but what if Iver had the winner killed in the arena and blamed it on the Peacekeepers? Then he could rally everyone behind him claiming humans are teh evilz.
That would fit for that conniving dwarf. Though I hope it does not happen
So now the question is, will the duel go down as planned? Or will it be interrupted? (Or maybe “interrupted”)?
My question is what the heck is Pena going to do… Lay down some serious drum beats to make Harry dance himself to death?!? Hell of a way to go… death by “Beat-off!”
Isn’t Harky the one that gave Penk a potshot punch the last time he even suggested this course of action? Now he’s being all respectful and letting him have an honest go of proving himself.
it was stated above, but Harky and Penk agree that their people can’t survive devision. So this needs to go down in a way that minimizes hard feelings for the aftermath. Plus, there is the religious component to this. Two avatar’s of the same god are fighting. If Harky loses (and all this pageantry makes it clear that he at least considers it a possibility), that means his god really does approve of Penk’s course of action and thus Penk’s way is the right way. Harky can live with that happening, even if he’d can’t live with it.
Last time, he likely thought Penk was acting on impulse, not thinking things through, letting himself be swayed by fleeting emotions.
This time he sees that Penk has given this a lot of serious thought and is fully aware of the consequences.
You know, Iver, “unfortunate accident” is natural causes for dwarven nobles. And those you’ve pissed off are those with control over magma. Just saying.
Are you a Dwarf Fortress player? That sounds EXACTLY like something a Dwarf Fortress player would say… :-)
PULL THE LEVER
Not so much a Dwarf Fortress “player” as much as “amused onlooker”.
I actually have, but I don’t think I’ve ever gotten up to the noble stage very often — it’s tied to population size. And I like my forts on the smallish end of things.
That said, they’re pretty easy to ignore. Nobles make demands but the only consequence of not fulfilling them is that they become unhappy. Which, woo-dee-doo, is irrelevant to the rest of my popuulation.
Isn’t it sweet how they finish each other sentences? True lovebirds ;-)
Ah hell. I’m getting a real strong “Cairne vs. Garrosh” vibe here. That’s not good.
Hello, I’m Iver, and I’m so deep into my own political scheming I’m about to pull a “His Grace Inwatani”.
Unwittingly drinking poison? That would be some poetic justice. ^_^
What I want to know is, are they ad-libbing this entirely, is it based on old trollish proverbs, or did they write and rehearse it moments ago?
I have to add my agreement in with the others above about how absolutely civil they’re being without smacktalking each other and only laying down what’s happening, respectfully, and how much I totally love it.
And then there’s Iver, who I didn’t even remember what the heck he was talking about until reading the comments. Man, I hope it backfires on him terribly since I think he mistakenly thinks his original “plan” for Magda to turn Penk on Harky has somehow worked and that’s actually what this fight’s about.
Even if they do unite against Iver, I do think they’ll still need to duke it out between themselves afterwards.
I don’t remember– when did Harky lose part of that ear? Was it burned off, that it didn’t regenerate?
Byron sliced it off. It probably didn’t regenerate since he ran out of healing repairing his chest.
It was also when he lost those two fingers.
Is it just me, or do all the silhouettes in the entry way in the third panel all look like dwarves?
And none in the stadium’s actual audience…
Unless there was a precedent set for this the last time there was action in this stadium, combined with the “Evil Iver” look it feels like something other than the duel is about to go down.
Although Im not sure how he would get away with it with so many on lookers. I feel like if they tried something here it would just result in the Worlds Rebellion falling apart. (unless thats the plan??)
Good catch, yeah, those are Dwarves, Iver and his soldiers, specifically, him in the last panel is him in the entryway. He’s going to kill either them both or the victor and declare himself Warlord.
I mean thats what the plan looks like(assuming there even is a plan and we’re not just imagining things), but I just don’t see it working.
From what I understand, Harky is mad respected by the crowd and Penk carries a pretty good amount of respect himself at this point. And after that speech I don’t see the crowd being anything but even more approving of them. I mean it was a speech dripping with mutual respect and implied a coming display of both might and honorable resolution. I feel like the crowd would be exceptionally peeved at whatever or whoever interrupts it.
I feel like interrupting it and trying to declare himself Warlord, would backfire horribly for him. He would need a scapegoat, tho admitably there happens to be a whole group of potential scapegoats there at the moment…
Ooooooh crap. I thought Iver was sitting in the audience, talking to himself under his breath. This changes everything!
I even think this is worth some extra exclamation marks: !!!
Their civility just makes it more depressing knowing one of them will definitely die, most likely Harky.
Twist: what if Penk actually loses and gets killed?
Heavy use of chemical product? It’s actually all in the cut, Iver.
‘Twas I who fucked the dragon,
Fuckalize sing-fuckaloo!
And if you try to fuck with me,
Then I shall fuck you too!