Well, that was a convincing, subtle and reasonable argument to betray all of your friends. Looks like Magda is just brimming with rage at Penk probably.
Aw, too bad, Iver. You almost had her convinced. Too bad you tried to rush the delivery and made a critical fumble. All you had to do was follow the last page with “ah, but that’s just the worst case scenario. I’m sure it would never actually come to that, right?”
And he goes for the touchdown and…. Oh! He fumbles the ball and… there is a whistle on the play! Loss of possession for being being so bloody obvious and assuming the receiver was too dumb to notice!
Or to use a geek metaphor instead of sports, and a quote I actually heard uttered by a Games Workshop head office guy during a Q&A session at a con once:
“You failed your stupidity roll didn’t you?”
Well, we’ve established in this page that Iver is a casual bigot, in the same mindset as everyone’s favorite Head of the Navy if not the same targets. Is it too hard to believe he’d dismiss female intelligence as an oxymoron?
He was incredibly subtle when compared to the amount of “say what they want you to say” that gets literally millions of real life human beings to believe stupid stuff. I think his only problem was that he forgot that to her Religion is how she seeks to do right in the world, when he thought she was one of the many who use religion to justify your own world view and close yourself off from the world.
I want to agree with you, but I just don’t know if we understand her character well enough. I think we are about to learn a lot about her 24 hours from now.
Same here. Looks like he flubbed his diplomacy *and* his sense motive.
Also I kinda forgot about Harky/Gondolessa! Cool stuff, shame Iver doesn’t approve. (Or actually I guess that bit of bigotry helped screw up his plans here, so yay)
Said her conscience to the little dwarf, “Do you hear what I hear?” (do you hear what i hear)
“Straight from Iver’s mouth, little dwarf; Do you hear what I hear?
“A lie, a lie, meaning to deceive; You should challenge what you’ve believed.
“You should challenge what you’ve believe.”
Said the Little Dwarf to the Herald Troll, “Do you know what I know?” (do you know what i know)
“In that painted tent, Herald Troll; Do you know what I know?
“A plot, a plot, grows within my lord; we should act before he betrays.
“We should act before he betrays.”
Said the Herald Troll to his Shining Gem: “Do you see what I see?” (Do you see what I see?)
“In the faces of our people, Shining Gem. Do you see what I see?
“There’s joy, there’s joy, in the strength of our union; do you really wish it to fall?
“Do you really wish it to fall?”
Said the Shining Gem to the nations all
Listen to what I say! (listen to what I say!)
Be they warlords, or chiefs, peasants, slaves or Kings
My fire must burn all dry and rotten things!
Let my fire purge away deceitful kings!
His argument made very little sense even if you ignore the bigotry. “Hey Magda, I may have killed your ancestors but if so, it must’ve been god’s will. Which I now proclaim is manifested through you! You can totally destroy Harky, if you think god would be into that. I feel much safer now that I’ve given you carte blanche to do whatever the hell you want, and all but admitted I murdered your family. How fiendishly clever of me.”
If it turns out there’s no backup plan for the oh-so-remote possibility of Magda turning on him, he’s just a poorly written villain.
I think it may be a layered intrigue so I wouldn’t count him out yet. On the other hand they may be having two different conversations here. He could honestly believe that everyone in power is either a tool for someone else or just as scheming as him and the mystics were using the traditions solely to justify their staying in power and that now he’s talking to a fellow schemer. What he’s saying is “Now that we’ve overthrown the old regime we’re in a good position to take over this new power structure. The simple folk seem to buy this whole Tectonicus thing so between you, me and Penk we could basically start throwing fire at our competition and say that the new fancy god hated all those people.”
It still wouldn’t be to his credit far as people skills are concerned but it is quite possible he is so blind to both the “spirituality” and “powersponsibility” concepts that it just never occurred to him someone who’s not “the masses” could seriously believe in them. Also bear in mind we’ve seen sides of Magda Iver is not privy to and if we were someone who believed that this whole gods thing was BS for the masses we could be reading the “my power comes from Tectonicus” as her agreeing to the triumvirate he’s proposing. Similarly it doesn’t seem he’s particularly outraged himself about Harky and Gondy, he just throws it out there as something that could be fed to the people during or as a followup to the takeover.
Very late response, but he was actually trying to convince her that if Harky and Penk are supposed to represent Tectonicus’ will, then if a battle for leadership can be affected by someone whose powers come from Tectonicus, it should be only because Tectonicus at the very least allows such actions to decide how his followers will act going forward.
While also playing on her obvious friendship with her leader.
At this point in time, if it were to come to a fight, she would likely already want to help Penk win (so that he can not die), but would feel obligated to avoid doing so because of her duty. Iver simply points out that if she truly is not allowed to ask Tectonicus to intervene, Tectonicus would then… not intervene.
It’s far from a bulletproof argument, but it’s not meant to be. Iver’s just hedging his bets with it. It’s very obvious that it’s an argument that has some merit with Magda, whether it’s because of her faith or because she wouldn’t want Penk to be killed.
Of course, when Iver goes too far with this page, it breaks her out of those thoughts immediately, as it becomes very clear that this is just Iver’s attempt to manipulate her.
Not to mention, “My Greatest Servant” and “My Blessed Son”. “You Will Live” sort of implies Tectonicus could give a rats ass about his personal life and just needs him to fight.
Magda: “Lord Techtonicus… how do you feel about… interspecies relations?”
Techtonicus: “ARE THEY MY ENEMIES?!”
Magda: “Well… no… it’s Gonelessa and Harky…”
Techtonicus: “THEN THEY SHALL NOT BURN!”
Magda: “But…. y’know… they’re gay… doesn’t that change it a little?”
Techtonicus: “… I… I REALLY DON’T KNOW HOW TO MAKE MY EDICTS ANY CLEARER… MAYBE I NEED MORE WORSHIPERS…”
Richard (from LFG): “Yo.”
And under that rule Iver would be setting himself up as the enemy, by being a nuisancy gossip and fomenting factional infighting. Just the action of THE ENEMY! Iver must face the fire and judgment!
Magda
“I remember Gondolessa (he was the one who selected me as the Dwarf champion of Tectonicus)”
“What of the Mystics? (like my dear uncle* and this other guy who just helped us defeat some eldrich abomination)”
Iver
“Oh, they are all just !diots and scum, just forget about them.”
Nicely done, Iver.
*I think Magda had a Mystic in her family (the big guy with the hammer), but I don’t remember the exact link
Ivers has to have some other play at work, here. There’s no way he actually thinks a speech that amounts to ‘lol fags’ is going to convince Magda to assassinate a visionary religious and military leader of the rebellion. Perhaps getting her to turn against him is the goal.
“Dwelling on the dead, my dear, is a path to nowhere but death itself.”
And that’s why you don’t build houses on top of graveyards. Just look at “Poltergeist”!
Well, that was a convincing, subtle and reasonable argument to betray all of your friends. Looks like Magda is just brimming with rage at Penk probably.
Another win for Iver!
No, I don’t think she’s buying it. (Unless you were being ironic there.)
It was super ironic.
Properly refined, that much irony could be used to build an aircraft carrier.
Or at least used as part of making a hat in Hat Fortress 2.
Aw, too bad, Iver. You almost had her convinced. Too bad you tried to rush the delivery and made a critical fumble. All you had to do was follow the last page with “ah, but that’s just the worst case scenario. I’m sure it would never actually come to that, right?”
And he goes for the touchdown and…. Oh! He fumbles the ball and… there is a whistle on the play! Loss of possession for being being so bloody obvious and assuming the receiver was too dumb to notice!
Or to use a geek metaphor instead of sports, and a quote I actually heard uttered by a Games Workshop head office guy during a Q&A session at a con once:
“You failed your stupidity roll didn’t you?”
Why are we talking about Jay Cutler?
Feels like he overplayed his hand here.
At least I hope he did. There’s no way she could possibly be dumb enough to fall for that clumsy of an attempt at manipulation.
Well, we’ve established in this page that Iver is a casual bigot, in the same mindset as everyone’s favorite Head of the Navy if not the same targets. Is it too hard to believe he’d dismiss female intelligence as an oxymoron?
Indeed that may be it.
He was incredibly subtle when compared to the amount of “say what they want you to say” that gets literally millions of real life human beings to believe stupid stuff. I think his only problem was that he forgot that to her Religion is how she seeks to do right in the world, when he thought she was one of the many who use religion to justify your own world view and close yourself off from the world.
Yeah. He came really came off sounding like more of a gossiping old hen then a smooth politician.
I want to agree with you, but I just don’t know if we understand her character well enough. I think we are about to learn a lot about her 24 hours from now.
This is pretty much going exactly how I’d hoped.
Same here. Looks like he flubbed his diplomacy *and* his sense motive.
Also I kinda forgot about Harky/Gondolessa! Cool stuff, shame Iver doesn’t approve. (Or actually I guess that bit of bigotry helped screw up his plans here, so yay)
Said her conscience to the little dwarf, “Do you hear what I hear?” (do you hear what i hear)
“Straight from Iver’s mouth, little dwarf; Do you hear what I hear?
“A lie, a lie, meaning to deceive; You should challenge what you’ve believed.
“You should challenge what you’ve believe.”
How can I ever repay you for this?
Said the Little Dwarf to the Herald Troll, “Do you know what I know?” (do you know what i know)
“In that painted tent, Herald Troll; Do you know what I know?
“A plot, a plot, grows within my lord; we should act before he betrays.
“We should act before he betrays.”
Said the Herald Troll to his Shining Gem: “Do you see what I see?” (Do you see what I see?)
“In the faces of our people, Shining Gem. Do you see what I see?
“There’s joy, there’s joy, in the strength of our union; do you really wish it to fall?
“Do you really wish it to fall?”
Absolutely beautiful!
Said the Shining Gem to the nations all
Listen to what I say! (listen to what I say!)
Be they warlords, or chiefs, peasants, slaves or Kings
My fire must burn all dry and rotten things!
Let my fire purge away deceitful kings!
two thumbs up from me to all of you little poets/songwriters. Nice work.
:) Very good! Easy to sing to the music too! Nicely done.
What’s the song?
He was fine until he started with the bigotry. 8|
His argument made very little sense even if you ignore the bigotry. “Hey Magda, I may have killed your ancestors but if so, it must’ve been god’s will. Which I now proclaim is manifested through you! You can totally destroy Harky, if you think god would be into that. I feel much safer now that I’ve given you carte blanche to do whatever the hell you want, and all but admitted I murdered your family. How fiendishly clever of me.”
If it turns out there’s no backup plan for the oh-so-remote possibility of Magda turning on him, he’s just a poorly written villain.
I think it may be a layered intrigue so I wouldn’t count him out yet. On the other hand they may be having two different conversations here. He could honestly believe that everyone in power is either a tool for someone else or just as scheming as him and the mystics were using the traditions solely to justify their staying in power and that now he’s talking to a fellow schemer. What he’s saying is “Now that we’ve overthrown the old regime we’re in a good position to take over this new power structure. The simple folk seem to buy this whole Tectonicus thing so between you, me and Penk we could basically start throwing fire at our competition and say that the new fancy god hated all those people.”
It still wouldn’t be to his credit far as people skills are concerned but it is quite possible he is so blind to both the “spirituality” and “powersponsibility” concepts that it just never occurred to him someone who’s not “the masses” could seriously believe in them. Also bear in mind we’ve seen sides of Magda Iver is not privy to and if we were someone who believed that this whole gods thing was BS for the masses we could be reading the “my power comes from Tectonicus” as her agreeing to the triumvirate he’s proposing. Similarly it doesn’t seem he’s particularly outraged himself about Harky and Gondy, he just throws it out there as something that could be fed to the people during or as a followup to the takeover.
Keep in mind, he’s not aware that she knows about him killing off the mystics. The only reason she knows that is from Gravedust.
Very late response, but he was actually trying to convince her that if Harky and Penk are supposed to represent Tectonicus’ will, then if a battle for leadership can be affected by someone whose powers come from Tectonicus, it should be only because Tectonicus at the very least allows such actions to decide how his followers will act going forward.
While also playing on her obvious friendship with her leader.
At this point in time, if it were to come to a fight, she would likely already want to help Penk win (so that he can not die), but would feel obligated to avoid doing so because of her duty. Iver simply points out that if she truly is not allowed to ask Tectonicus to intervene, Tectonicus would then… not intervene.
It’s far from a bulletproof argument, but it’s not meant to be. Iver’s just hedging his bets with it. It’s very obvious that it’s an argument that has some merit with Magda, whether it’s because of her faith or because she wouldn’t want Penk to be killed.
Of course, when Iver goes too far with this page, it breaks her out of those thoughts immediately, as it becomes very clear that this is just Iver’s attempt to manipulate her.
So is she supposed to be more outraged by the gayness or the interspecies-ness?
I’m sure Ivar would be fine with whichever type of outrage she decides she should have.
I hate the sky now!
Oh Iver, as if we needed another reason to dislike you. Still, I’ll add “homophobia” to the list of reasons why Dorf Regis is a bastard.
Can’t just have villains, gotta have politically incorrect villains. I wonder if Iver’s played by JJ.
Magda… the words of your god are clear.
http://guildedage.net/comic/chapter-20-page-19/
All enemies burn.
Not to mention, “My Greatest Servant” and “My Blessed Son”. “You Will Live” sort of implies Tectonicus could give a rats ass about his personal life and just needs him to fight.
his = Harky’s
Magda: “Lord Techtonicus… how do you feel about… interspecies relations?”
Techtonicus: “ARE THEY MY ENEMIES?!”
Magda: “Well… no… it’s Gonelessa and Harky…”
Techtonicus: “THEN THEY SHALL NOT BURN!”
Magda: “But…. y’know… they’re gay… doesn’t that change it a little?”
Techtonicus: “… I… I REALLY DON’T KNOW HOW TO MAKE MY EDICTS ANY CLEARER… MAYBE I NEED MORE WORSHIPERS…”
Richard (from LFG): “Yo.”
“THOSE THAT WOULD ADD SUPERFLUOUS RULES FOR ORGANIC MATING ARE THE ENEMY!”
And under that rule Iver would be setting himself up as the enemy, by being a nuisancy gossip and fomenting factional infighting. Just the action of THE ENEMY! Iver must face the fire and judgment!
So… Iver is Old Head of Navy’s Horde alt?
GOD, I want to punch his smug face. Excellent work on that expression, Mr. Waltrip.
Thanks, Jim. I used a mirror!
Well, you don’t count as a creator, but as far as I’m concerned, Gold Star Comment!
Firstly… John has been awarded a Gold Star by Phil before.
Secondly… declaring something worthy of a Gold Star is a guarantee that it won’t get one.
So… *slow claps* …
“Well, you don’t see them
around thesedays, do you?”Um, wasn’t that your fault though?
damnit let me try that again.
“Well you don’t see them around these days, do you?”
Um, wasn’t that your fault though?
Insert joke about Tectonicus not hating this ship since they be Flaming.
*Rolls Persuasion Check…* NAT 20!!!!
More like a Natural 1, she doesn’t look very persuaded at all. In fact, *quite* the opposite.
“Well, you don’t see them around these days, do you?”
“Well, there is that one who keeps coming back from the dead.”
Magda
“I remember Gondolessa (he was the one who selected me as the Dwarf champion of Tectonicus)”
“What of the Mystics? (like my dear uncle* and this other guy who just helped us defeat some eldrich abomination)”
Iver
“Oh, they are all just !diots and scum, just forget about them.”
Nicely done, Iver.
*I think Magda had a Mystic in her family (the big guy with the hammer), but I don’t remember the exact link
Uncle and niece.
Magda, I think it’s time to wash your hair.
Ivers has to have some other play at work, here. There’s no way he actually thinks a speech that amounts to ‘lol fags’ is going to convince Magda to assassinate a visionary religious and military leader of the rebellion. Perhaps getting her to turn against him is the goal.
And he left her fuming. Not a small feat, considering her balanced temper.
Either that or Tectonicus is about to give her a lesson on how flammable hair is.
No; that’s a dwelling *behind* her.
“Dwelling on the dead, my dear, is a path to nowhere but death itself.”
And that’s why you don’t build houses on top of graveyards. Just look at “Poltergeist”!
“hE’s An InTeLlIgEnT bEiNg”
Stick your fuckin’ mountain where the sun don’t shine, and let the Gays take over. We’d do a better job anyhow.