I was thinking of the portal from the 2009 version of Wolfenstein as well. “Ni, herr doktor, you will be the one who will protect me!” That worked out so well for everyone involved…
This narrative is feeling a little sprawly. I love that the strip updates 5/week now, but the pace of the story seems to slowing, not getting faster. I’m not sure this whole jokey cult-Con sequence was a good investment (except the backroom deal subplot, that was pretty crisp). I mean, it took like sixteen pages to get to the “punchline” of the guy shivving his pal for Chaos.
The Armageddacon was really funny and it was necessary to establish the “friendship” between Ashok and Ulak else Ashok’s death wouldn’t have nearly the same effect. There would be no punchline without the build up leading up to it.
It also gave some needed insight into cult culture which was pretty underdeveloped so far. Nothing was wasted imo, the journey is as important as the destination if not more. Otherwise the story might as well be told in condensed bullet points depicting only the most important and plot relevant events.
We disagree on just how much jokey Armageddacon was necessary to set up the joke. We also disagree on how funny it was, I think. I thought it was corny, mostly, and I feel like the Cult is portrayed as self-destructive and whimsical, not a serious threat–maybe that’s intentional, but right now these guys seem like the Keystone Kops, how are they going to fight for Chaos when they’re chopping off their own limbs to pay for merch? And killing each other wholesale? Do they have infinite numbers? I forget, are these real people, or gaming simulacrums? If they’re simulacrums, why should I care that that guy died? If they’re real, how do they expect to kill their enemies when every time they get together, they are decimated from within?. And I feel there’s a difference between fleshing out the narrative, and padding. Somewhere between six and sixteen pages of Con we jumped over that line.
P.S. Didn’t mean to create a sockpuppet, I accidentally put my name instead of my super-cool handle, earlier.
Yeah, look, a comic with this much meta and genre-savvy shout-outs is always going to have sections werhe Your Mileage May Vary.
Personally, I agree with the Captain, and I’ve been chuckling through the whole chapter. If you didn’t enjoy the delightful parody/documentary, I can understand that it would be less fun for you.
As for “do we care about characters who are only simulacra?”, that question really got beaten to death in the initial comment fights after we found out about H.R. Daedalus, and again it looked like it came down to YMMV. I suspect a number of people had instinctive reactions against it based on bad past experiences (mea culpa). If you stuck with the comic and had your fears confirmed, this is a pity, but ultimately you never get any story which everyone likes. If you stuck with the comic and were rewarded, this is good, and sit back and enjoy.
After all, remember the MST3K Mantra, and Aal Izz Well.
Until you mentioned it, I didn’t realize how little I cared about meta and genre savvy shout-outs. This story has a strong narrative with many sympathetic protagonists and antagonists (and some clunkers, but whatever) involved in interesting conflicts that unfold in satisfying ways. Every time the story drags ass over a hammy pop-culture reference like a speedbump, I’m a little annoyed. The central story here is great, we don’t really need these cheap pandery flourishes–this isn’t Erfworld, as someone pointed out.
The story here is actually interesting. I guess that’s where my aggravation comes from. It’s not that the metatextual padding is inherently objectionable, it’s that I feel like it’s getting in the way of more creative stuff.
We just try to have something for everyone, I guess.
More to the point: We decided to try some new stuff with this chapter. We like to experiment with GA a lot in the general sense. It doesn’t always work, but we think it’s always worth a shot.
On the topic of gaming simulacrums and giving a shit about them: By now, it’s pretty clear that many of the constructs of the game that we meet are much much more than simulations of real life. The magic involved has lent them life and capability to interact that was never expected even by the creator. I would then suggest that whether Ashok and Ulak are “NPCs” or not is largely irrelevant, as their interactions in the comic clearly suggest that they are sentient.
Clear how? In the context of this narrative, this is a sophisticated next-generation MMO, with unprecedented NPC AI. More importantly, the limitations on the non-interactive artform of comics mean we are viewing interactions between characters in a purely passive way, in exactly the same way we would view a cutscene in Call of Duty, or Super Mario Galaxy. Seeing NPC’s play their assigned roles, isolated from any of the “known” player characters, I fail to see how there’s any indication whatsoever that Ulak and Ashok aren’t just scripted NPC’s, doing some black comedy for the benefit of the players around to see it.
I know that the creators of the strip have come forward and told everyone “this is not just a video game” or some similar equivocation, but there’s really nothing on the page that suggests that, and telling your audience something, instead of showing them is a shabby narrative crutch.
It’s like in The Princess Bride when the grandfather pauses the narrative to say that she doesn’t die. It’s not something he does in the service of the narrative or because it’s narratively desirable; he does it in deference to the needs of his audience. At this point, you should not know how real Arkerra is. It’s plain to see that it’s supposed to be ambiguous at this point; H.R. and Carol aren’t sure, so why should we be? However, some people don’t have the patience to wait to find out, so for those it has been revealed outside of the narrative that the Arkerra segments aren’t meaningless.
While I agree that this chapter’s been pretty slow, at least for me, I don’t think it’s a consequence of the change in schedule so much as it’s just this given chapter. Most chapters swap back and forth between two or three different storylines that sometimes converge and sometimes don’t, and that’s present here.
Narratively I think the comparatively lengthy detour with Ashok and Ulak (which was really only I think maybe a week and a half worth of strips, maybe a couple more) serves a few purposes, among them: a) establishing the friendship and b) providing a comical and (for lack of a better word) humanizing element to the Countless Limbs & the chapter. In both cases, it’s there to make it even more shocking when, say, a dude’s throat gets slit or Brother Tom makes a deal with Iwatani that will enable the cultists to sacrifice a town or Ulak stabs his friend in the nape. Along those lines, it’s there to continue the sort of attitude the comic’s always taken towards the cultists, which is they’re just Regular Folks Like You And Me, which makes it scarier/worse when they, you know, cut a dude’s throat open and plot to annihilate towns.
I didn’t personally enjoy all or even most of the convention stuff, which is why it felt really slow for me. I didn’t care too much about it, so pages focused on that storyline didn’t engage me as deeply, plus I think given how little the comic’s delved into the Countless Limbs before, there’s not as strong a commitment to the characters or ideas in this chapter. But again, I don’t think it reflects on the overall pacing. This chapter will be ending next week – most chapters end with about twenty-five pages, give or take a couple pages – so we’ll most likely be swapping perspectives again. I guess it’ll be easier to tell at the end of that chapter or the next whether or not the change in schedule’s messed with the pacing. But I really do believe it’s just this particular chapter’s focus!
(As for the simulacrum point you make above: I don’t think it really matters if these people are just part of the game. It’s been made pretty clear throughout the comic that all of the characters have feelings, beliefs, motivations, etc., that whether they’re player characters or NPCs or perhaps actual real persons in another universe, the world they inhabit is real to them. They believe that Arkerra is real, that they are real, and that the things they do are real, so thus all these things are real.)
Also (I know, not to make aNOTHER comment), I apologize sincerely if any of the above is like, Way Obvious, or if it comes off as condescending or like… anything. Yeah. OK. Good-bye forever.
Well, at least Ashok got his chance to realize his dream, and shine on stage in the main event. Truly a man who sacrificed himself for the art. And in the end, you can see how deep he felt by being the target of his brothers attentions, he is clearly moved by their efforts.
I actually talked to both Phil and Xin at Gencon about the similarities between the two series, but how they approach the same thing from much different angles.
The primary difference is that this strip updates more than half-a-dozen-times a president. And this one is better in every metric that matters. Remember when one of the factions in Erfworld had an ability that just cancels the opposing faction’s turn? WAT A TWEEST
Eh, given that said ability required three sides, a master level turnamancer, a master level carnymancer, and a fully attuned arkentool, I didn’t really have a problem with it.
And since the narrative did such a great job of explaining just how significant that combination was, beforehand it was in no way a shameful exercise in deus ex Machina. OH WAIT ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE OF THAT
significance of that combination = an unholy f**kload of power? Anywho, as has been said before on this very comment board: your mileage may vary. I enjoy Erfworld and Guilded Age for very different reasons, but I enjoy them both.
When a previously unknown, unprecedented and unexplained power that the audience could have no way of seeing coming shows up at a key point in the narrative in order to stave off or reverse a great disaster, that is the dictionary definition of “Deus Ex Machina.” It’s fine that you’re okay with it happening, and everyone is allowed to like what they like, but that’s what it is.
Translations–
“ULLKK” :: “But… I’m not dead yet.”
“GXKK” :: “I’m only mostly dead, honest!”
“HGGLK” :: “Is this a resurrection ritual? Cause healing would be better– I’m not quite dead…”
“MMRRGK” :: “This isn’t a healing OR a resurrection, is it? :-/”
I think color of the void is wrong. Needs to be totally black except for little flecks of white symbols it it. Because the power behind all power is the Command Line! Bin/Sh .. /’ya’ll!’ Killall -g -q Kernel.
Although I guess everyone likes coloring their terminal windows differently these days. I imagine the need of reality is much like a Kernal panic, everything just locks up and stops begin anything. Until someone playing god comes along a resets the power switch.
I spy a horde symbol.
good eye!
There’s also one on the gate that looks very much like The Eye of Horus.
… At least, it does in the second panel. Not so much in the fourth.
Aww shucks. Ulak is beaming from all this praise, but he doesn’t want to be that gushing fanboy that just keeps shanking you for the compliment.
At least he’s having a knife time
You guys just cut right to the puns, don’t you?
We like to look sharp.
That young stabbed man got quite Ashok
He was Ashoking for it.
I still think he’s been being something of a prick.
I think Ulak is gonna be on the cutting edge of the cults future endeavors.
For those of you who don’t want to be distracted from the continuity of Ashok’s death throes the whole thing goes: ullkkgxkkhgglkmmrrgk…
No need to thank me.
Ok, I won’t. I won’t express any appreciation. BTW, thanks for telling me there was no need to-
CRAP!!
Not gonna lie, I totally expected the hidden text to be ‘mmblk’ or something. x3
What if it’s a message? Ulak, go home, meow?
My first thought actually was that he was trying to call out to Ulak.
…
They’re going to go meet Daniel and Sha’uri!
Sha’re, if you watched the show…
Richard Dean Anderson cameo! *fingers crossed*
i’ll be happy if Teal or Carter did a cameo as well.
I was thinking of the portal from the 2009 version of Wolfenstein as well. “Ni, herr doktor, you will be the one who will protect me!” That worked out so well for everyone involved…
Ashok had some *great* one-liners in this one, didn’t he?
Comedy gold.
I think he got a real raise out of Ulak.
…
Gah! I just now thought of a joke that would have been mildly amusing with the previous page. Damn you, HindSight!
You know you can comment on old comic pages, right?
Go on, post it there. Future readers that are catching up may appreciate it :)
Yeah, fair enough. I suppose it’s just the usual feeling of missing the most opportune timing, but something is better than nothing.
And there it goes.
And now our Esteemed CREATOR comes into the game…. how will this turn out….?
He will most likely be eating Fast Food and wondering just what the hell is a giant portal doing in the server room.
this is turning more from WoW to Star Ocean world. <_<
If this was Star Ocean 2, there would be no end to my happiness.
ahh Star Ocean 2, I played that one a lot. Didn’t really care for the 3rd though
My main issue with SO2 was all the parrot speak.
I grew up here.
So you were born here, then?
Yes, I was.
So you’re from here.
As long as it’s not Star Tropics. Because I ost that special code sheet.
It would be interesting if the two universes merged.
HA HA HA. Volunteers.
This narrative is feeling a little sprawly. I love that the strip updates 5/week now, but the pace of the story seems to slowing, not getting faster. I’m not sure this whole jokey cult-Con sequence was a good investment (except the backroom deal subplot, that was pretty crisp). I mean, it took like sixteen pages to get to the “punchline” of the guy shivving his pal for Chaos.
INB4 “go read something else, then, hater”
Go read the Wikipedia page instead, then, hater.
The Armageddacon was really funny and it was necessary to establish the “friendship” between Ashok and Ulak else Ashok’s death wouldn’t have nearly the same effect. There would be no punchline without the build up leading up to it.
It also gave some needed insight into cult culture which was pretty underdeveloped so far. Nothing was wasted imo, the journey is as important as the destination if not more. Otherwise the story might as well be told in condensed bullet points depicting only the most important and plot relevant events.
We disagree on just how much jokey Armageddacon was necessary to set up the joke. We also disagree on how funny it was, I think. I thought it was corny, mostly, and I feel like the Cult is portrayed as self-destructive and whimsical, not a serious threat–maybe that’s intentional, but right now these guys seem like the Keystone Kops, how are they going to fight for Chaos when they’re chopping off their own limbs to pay for merch? And killing each other wholesale? Do they have infinite numbers? I forget, are these real people, or gaming simulacrums? If they’re simulacrums, why should I care that that guy died? If they’re real, how do they expect to kill their enemies when every time they get together, they are decimated from within?. And I feel there’s a difference between fleshing out the narrative, and padding. Somewhere between six and sixteen pages of Con we jumped over that line.
P.S. Didn’t mean to create a sockpuppet, I accidentally put my name instead of my super-cool handle, earlier.
Yeah, look, a comic with this much meta and genre-savvy shout-outs is always going to have sections werhe Your Mileage May Vary.
Personally, I agree with the Captain, and I’ve been chuckling through the whole chapter. If you didn’t enjoy the delightful parody/documentary, I can understand that it would be less fun for you.
As for “do we care about characters who are only simulacra?”, that question really got beaten to death in the initial comment fights after we found out about H.R. Daedalus, and again it looked like it came down to YMMV. I suspect a number of people had instinctive reactions against it based on bad past experiences (mea culpa). If you stuck with the comic and had your fears confirmed, this is a pity, but ultimately you never get any story which everyone likes. If you stuck with the comic and were rewarded, this is good, and sit back and enjoy.
After all, remember the MST3K Mantra, and Aal Izz Well.
Until you mentioned it, I didn’t realize how little I cared about meta and genre savvy shout-outs. This story has a strong narrative with many sympathetic protagonists and antagonists (and some clunkers, but whatever) involved in interesting conflicts that unfold in satisfying ways. Every time the story drags ass over a hammy pop-culture reference like a speedbump, I’m a little annoyed. The central story here is great, we don’t really need these cheap pandery flourishes–this isn’t Erfworld, as someone pointed out.
The story here is actually interesting. I guess that’s where my aggravation comes from. It’s not that the metatextual padding is inherently objectionable, it’s that I feel like it’s getting in the way of more creative stuff.
We just try to have something for everyone, I guess.
More to the point: We decided to try some new stuff with this chapter. We like to experiment with GA a lot in the general sense. It doesn’t always work, but we think it’s always worth a shot.
On the topic of gaming simulacrums and giving a shit about them: By now, it’s pretty clear that many of the constructs of the game that we meet are much much more than simulations of real life. The magic involved has lent them life and capability to interact that was never expected even by the creator. I would then suggest that whether Ashok and Ulak are “NPCs” or not is largely irrelevant, as their interactions in the comic clearly suggest that they are sentient.
Clear how? In the context of this narrative, this is a sophisticated next-generation MMO, with unprecedented NPC AI. More importantly, the limitations on the non-interactive artform of comics mean we are viewing interactions between characters in a purely passive way, in exactly the same way we would view a cutscene in Call of Duty, or Super Mario Galaxy. Seeing NPC’s play their assigned roles, isolated from any of the “known” player characters, I fail to see how there’s any indication whatsoever that Ulak and Ashok aren’t just scripted NPC’s, doing some black comedy for the benefit of the players around to see it.
I know that the creators of the strip have come forward and told everyone “this is not just a video game” or some similar equivocation, but there’s really nothing on the page that suggests that, and telling your audience something, instead of showing them is a shabby narrative crutch.
It’s like in The Princess Bride when the grandfather pauses the narrative to say that she doesn’t die. It’s not something he does in the service of the narrative or because it’s narratively desirable; he does it in deference to the needs of his audience. At this point, you should not know how real Arkerra is. It’s plain to see that it’s supposed to be ambiguous at this point; H.R. and Carol aren’t sure, so why should we be? However, some people don’t have the patience to wait to find out, so for those it has been revealed outside of the narrative that the Arkerra segments aren’t meaningless.
While I agree that this chapter’s been pretty slow, at least for me, I don’t think it’s a consequence of the change in schedule so much as it’s just this given chapter. Most chapters swap back and forth between two or three different storylines that sometimes converge and sometimes don’t, and that’s present here.
Narratively I think the comparatively lengthy detour with Ashok and Ulak (which was really only I think maybe a week and a half worth of strips, maybe a couple more) serves a few purposes, among them: a) establishing the friendship and b) providing a comical and (for lack of a better word) humanizing element to the Countless Limbs & the chapter. In both cases, it’s there to make it even more shocking when, say, a dude’s throat gets slit or Brother Tom makes a deal with Iwatani that will enable the cultists to sacrifice a town or Ulak stabs his friend in the nape. Along those lines, it’s there to continue the sort of attitude the comic’s always taken towards the cultists, which is they’re just Regular Folks Like You And Me, which makes it scarier/worse when they, you know, cut a dude’s throat open and plot to annihilate towns.
I didn’t personally enjoy all or even most of the convention stuff, which is why it felt really slow for me. I didn’t care too much about it, so pages focused on that storyline didn’t engage me as deeply, plus I think given how little the comic’s delved into the Countless Limbs before, there’s not as strong a commitment to the characters or ideas in this chapter. But again, I don’t think it reflects on the overall pacing. This chapter will be ending next week – most chapters end with about twenty-five pages, give or take a couple pages – so we’ll most likely be swapping perspectives again. I guess it’ll be easier to tell at the end of that chapter or the next whether or not the change in schedule’s messed with the pacing. But I really do believe it’s just this particular chapter’s focus!
(As for the simulacrum point you make above: I don’t think it really matters if these people are just part of the game. It’s been made pretty clear throughout the comic that all of the characters have feelings, beliefs, motivations, etc., that whether they’re player characters or NPCs or perhaps actual real persons in another universe, the world they inhabit is real to them. They believe that Arkerra is real, that they are real, and that the things they do are real, so thus all these things are real.)
WOW, holy frick, I made a really long/wordy comment. W-whoops?
Also (I know, not to make aNOTHER comment), I apologize sincerely if any of the above is like, Way Obvious, or if it comes off as condescending or like… anything. Yeah. OK. Good-bye forever.
Nah, seemed fine.
Yeah, and I agree with a lot of what you said, and I also am wordy as fuck.
Ashok isn’t dead, they’re going to throw him through the portal and he’ll appear in H R’s office.
… he’ll yank his headset off, throw it to the ground, and shout “Damn this game!”
No, no, he’s just getting a hacked copy of Escape from Cyberia.
I see what you did there.
Well, at least Ashok got his chance to realize his dream, and shine on stage in the main event. Truly a man who sacrificed himself for the art. And in the end, you can see how deep he felt by being the target of his brothers attentions, he is clearly moved by their efforts.
I wonder if they summon somebody we all know very well and who was missing from the action for quite some time. ^_^
Fingers crossed but somehow I feel it’s not time yet.
…Auraugu?
Sudden tones of Erfworld.
I actually talked to both Phil and Xin at Gencon about the similarities between the two series, but how they approach the same thing from much different angles.
The primary difference is that this strip updates more than half-a-dozen-times a president. And this one is better in every metric that matters. Remember when one of the factions in Erfworld had an ability that just cancels the opposing faction’s turn? WAT A TWEEST
Eh, given that said ability required three sides, a master level turnamancer, a master level carnymancer, and a fully attuned arkentool, I didn’t really have a problem with it.
And since the narrative did such a great job of explaining just how significant that combination was, beforehand it was in no way a shameful exercise in deus ex Machina. OH WAIT ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE OF THAT
significance of that combination = an unholy f**kload of power? Anywho, as has been said before on this very comment board: your mileage may vary. I enjoy Erfworld and Guilded Age for very different reasons, but I enjoy them both.
+1
When a previously unknown, unprecedented and unexplained power that the audience could have no way of seeing coming shows up at a key point in the narrative in order to stave off or reverse a great disaster, that is the dictionary definition of “Deus Ex Machina.” It’s fine that you’re okay with it happening, and everyone is allowed to like what they like, but that’s what it is.
Translation of Ashoks words: “Ulak?” “Guys?” “Hey…” “Mommy?”
So, if this is how H. R. enters this world, is this going to be his apotheosis as well?
Now what’s the point of Ashok buying that nice blood container if he’s just going to let his own blood spill all over the floor.
Some people…
I believe that H.R. is about to enter the world of through the body of Ashok.
Assuming the server doesn’t timeout.
Translations–
“ULLKK” :: “But… I’m not dead yet.”
“GXKK” :: “I’m only mostly dead, honest!”
“HGGLK” :: “Is this a resurrection ritual? Cause healing would be better– I’m not quite dead…”
“MMRRGK” :: “This isn’t a healing OR a resurrection, is it? :-/”
Damnit. I just noticed Guesticus already did this joke. Sorry.
I think color of the void is wrong. Needs to be totally black except for little flecks of white symbols it it. Because the power behind all power is the Command Line! Bin/Sh .. /’ya’ll!’ Killall -g -q Kernel.
Although I guess everyone likes coloring their terminal windows differently these days. I imagine the need of reality is much like a Kernal panic, everything just locks up and stops begin anything. Until someone playing god comes along a resets the power switch.
Monday: The door opens on an all day marathon of Two and a Half Men. Truly, the darkness is unforgiving.
Hm….any relation to Byron’s doodles in the desert?
I dunno… Maybe–he did draw a sort of swirly dimension gate-looking-thing.
I just realized how much Ulak looks like that drummer troll kid.
Are you suggesting that all trolls look alike? How politically incorrect.
I believe I already called the ReBestification on that portal.
Eh. Hope he’ll be done with the ritual before Ashok finishes his corpserun.
Death magic is purple, HR’s tie is purple, HR’s magic is purple, common thread?