An adventurer bailout might actually stimulate the economy as opposed to dumping more money into General Coaches and their bulky, heavy wood, horse guzzlers.
From personal experience, healers blame everybody else…if the enemy gets to the healers then SOMEBODY fucked up so we can’t be entirely wrong. Also, who in their right mind is going to argue with the healer?
As someone who always specialised in taking out the enemy healers, it was never my responsibility to protect the allied squishies.
If the assassin is the last line of defense, something has gone horribly wrong.
Also, I always preferred having some back-up healing option to relying exclusively on healers. If losing the healer equals instant party-wipe… it probably wasn’t a very good party in the first place.
It’s not the DPS fault they think their class is easier to play. “Hey I don’t need to think if I just use this build here to max out my damage.” And then BAM. Sudden aggro shift! Healers screaming, tanks dying, mobs spawning! TPK. The Tanks KNOW they have to understand the Aggro system, and read up on all the mobs and bosses that will be punching them in the face for the next three and a half hours or so. Healers do the same because they’d rather NOT get punched in the face. But DPS? “Nah I don’t need to do all the required reading. I’ll just stab it while the Tank does all the work!”
Hey now. Any DPS worth their salt knows damn well how to mitigate their aggro off themselves or onto the tank. I blame either the noob tanks who don’t understand threat tables, or the healers who can’t keep their own heal aggro down. Also, speaking as a pure dps player (I raided as bm hunter tyvm), and usually the one who had to watch the videos and was one of 4 raid leaders, you either get your team to watch those videos or you beat them with their own mouse if they don’t learn after the first few learning wipes.
But I think we can all agree that random aggro fights are just the absolute worst for all parties involved. Not so bad if the meatshield has it, but gods help you if you are of the squishier variety and you cannot kite until it shifts again.
I had this all the time in my WoW days, but I did both Kitty DPS and Bear tanking so I had both sides of it. I was one of the overachievers in our guild of mostly-casual folks (I do not use that perjoratively); I can see how class mechanics fit and things clicked for me and I was always competing with myself. This made me a pretty great tank (once I learned to overcome some tunnel vision issues) but it also meant that my kitty farted out as much damage as two other folks combined (not counting the 3-4 over overachievers like me). Add in that kitties are crit-based and have other RNG things to make their damage very spiky, and there were times I’d have to shift out and throw placebo-heals on guys just for something to do while threat got back under control.
Not to say the tanks other than I were bad, just that things scale with gear and I tended to have some of the best gear.
Tank (n): meatshield, particularly a meatshield who specialized in getting every enemy in the fight to flail ineffectively at their big armored ass.
DPS (n): a character specialized in rapidly killing things at the expense of defensive abilities/traits/armor/etc. Preferably, they kill things that are distracted by wailing ineffectively on the tank’s big armored ass.
that’s not necessarily true. My friends and I roleplay Red Dragon Inn and The Order of the Stick Game, there’s always room for roleplay. (I do a *fantastic* Elan. They won’t let me play anyone else.)
Roleplay is best done without all the rules and math anyways. Straight literature spam roleplay! Where MEN go to be huge nerds and write about their fantasy Mary Sue’s attempting ineffectually to get on with the main quest! What were we supposed to be doing again? I was too busy describing this LEMON in twenty pages or less. I don’t know, but lets get off track with this pointless subplot I’ve pulled out of a hat!
Online, I’m quite partial to choose-your-own-adventure roleplay (think Zork, but with a DM). Give ’em a command prompt and a setup, and let the magic happen.
I get the impression I’m losing touch with the way MMOs are going these days.
I pretty much stopped MMOing a few years back. Guild Wars was in decline, and I kinda got tired of playing Mabinogi.
Guild Wars PvP standard is: Jump in, spike the squishy, get out.
Regardless of tanks or aggro-control, the moment the Sin appears, he is gonna aggro SOMEONE on account of generally going straight for the healer (shadowstep techniques help)… so the trick is to do the damage (i.e. assassinate the healer) and escape before they can react. No Sin is likely to last long in a drawn out fight behind enemy lines, irrespective of what the allied healer or aggro-control is doing.
Mabinogi was… different…
No strict classes as such, though most people specialised one way or another. As such, you’d only have a dedicated healer in the party if you were lucky enough to know someone who voluntarily specialised in it (they tend to be VERY appreciated though). Folk in Mabinogi are generally expected to keep themselves alive, unless they’re up against insurmountable odds (in which case there is generally a healer just outside the room, healing them up from outside aggro-range).
“Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up! I don’t have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. A day may come when the courage of men fails. This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you’re gonna let it be the worst. Well, I’m not going home. The line must be drawn HERE. Soldiers! Don’t give yourselves to brutes! Men who despise you, enslave you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think, what to feel! You’re like a big bear with claws and with fangs! He pulls a knife, you pull an trebuchet! That’s the Gastonia way! We few! We happy few! They may take our lives, but they’ll never take Spartacus! Because I’m Spartacus!”
“I’m Spartacus!”
“Shut up! I’m talking here, I’m talking here!”
“I know Kung Fu!”
“No one cares!”
“Leave Britney alone!”
“I’m not gonna leave Britney alone. I want her to get mad! What we’ve got here is failure to communicate! You’ve got to ask yourself one question: Is it safe? It comes down to a simple choice, get busy living, or get busy dying! Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. And as God is my witness, I’ll never be hungry again! That’s the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and you can’t handle the truth! So cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!”
New Characters! N’tlygolas (Sad N’tlygolas is sad), Pensive the Rogue, Pouty Paddy (an alliterative nickname for Padfoot), Genyrick the half elf, and Bigote the Red!
No, Gravedust, you can’t take two and make stilts.
Smoke ’em if you got them!
Exactly what I thought. Obviously more than one veteran around here.
They should have sent Frigg, she has a way with words.
Bad words. Cuss words mostly.
She would deal with the council like she played chess with the gnomes…
Shits about to get inspirational up in here.
An adventurer bailout might actually stimulate the economy as opposed to dumping more money into General Coaches and their bulky, heavy wood, horse guzzlers.
That’s the sort of thing I’d expect to hear from a Bandit Keynesian.
/clap
/clap
I’m just (FA) hayuking it up over here at that one…
Now I have that rap stuck in my head..
From personal experience, healers blame everybody else…if the enemy gets to the healers then SOMEBODY fucked up so we can’t be entirely wrong. Also, who in their right mind is going to argue with the healer?
Everyone.
Sorry, can’t hear your arguments over all that bleeding you’re doing!
In my experience the stupid players always love to tell the healers how they’re doing their job wrong.
In my experience those are the people who’s opinions I respect by not healing them, incorrectly or otherwise.
As someone who always specialised in taking out the enemy healers, it was never my responsibility to protect the allied squishies.
If the assassin is the last line of defense, something has gone horribly wrong.
Also, I always preferred having some back-up healing option to relying exclusively on healers. If losing the healer equals instant party-wipe… it probably wasn’t a very good party in the first place.
Wait – take who’s knee?
All that matters is that you make sure they don’t have arrows in them.
I heartily endorse kneecapping legislators.
It’s not the DPS fault they think their class is easier to play. “Hey I don’t need to think if I just use this build here to max out my damage.” And then BAM. Sudden aggro shift! Healers screaming, tanks dying, mobs spawning! TPK. The Tanks KNOW they have to understand the Aggro system, and read up on all the mobs and bosses that will be punching them in the face for the next three and a half hours or so. Healers do the same because they’d rather NOT get punched in the face. But DPS? “Nah I don’t need to do all the required reading. I’ll just stab it while the Tank does all the work!”
Lousy bloody rogues…
Hey now. Any DPS worth their salt knows damn well how to mitigate their aggro off themselves or onto the tank. I blame either the noob tanks who don’t understand threat tables, or the healers who can’t keep their own heal aggro down. Also, speaking as a pure dps player (I raided as bm hunter tyvm), and usually the one who had to watch the videos and was one of 4 raid leaders, you either get your team to watch those videos or you beat them with their own mouse if they don’t learn after the first few learning wipes.
But I think we can all agree that random aggro fights are just the absolute worst for all parties involved. Not so bad if the meatshield has it, but gods help you if you are of the squishier variety and you cannot kite until it shifts again.
I had this all the time in my WoW days, but I did both Kitty DPS and Bear tanking so I had both sides of it. I was one of the overachievers in our guild of mostly-casual folks (I do not use that perjoratively); I can see how class mechanics fit and things clicked for me and I was always competing with myself. This made me a pretty great tank (once I learned to overcome some tunnel vision issues) but it also meant that my kitty farted out as much damage as two other folks combined (not counting the 3-4 over overachievers like me). Add in that kitties are crit-based and have other RNG things to make their damage very spiky, and there were times I’d have to shift out and throw placebo-heals on guys just for something to do while threat got back under control.
Not to say the tanks other than I were bad, just that things scale with gear and I tended to have some of the best gear.
Pft…the problem is tanks taking aggro…then pulling the bad guys out of the DPS’s range. *mutters murderously*
You guys are great. Us pen and paper gamers have no idea what you are talking about. Its all roleplay baby!!!
Translation…
Tank (n): meatshield, particularly a meatshield who specialized in getting every enemy in the fight to flail ineffectively at their big armored ass.
DPS (n): a character specialized in rapidly killing things at the expense of defensive abilities/traits/armor/etc. Preferably, they kill things that are distracted by wailing ineffectively on the tank’s big armored ass.
Beware D&D 4.0 then. It’s a basically just a pen & paper version of an MMO. Doesn’t encourage much roleplay.
that’s not necessarily true. My friends and I roleplay Red Dragon Inn and The Order of the Stick Game, there’s always room for roleplay. (I do a *fantastic* Elan. They won’t let me play anyone else.)
Thanks to your current gravatar, I now see an image of Gravedust running around naked screaming “I’m invisible!”
Roleplay is best done without all the rules and math anyways. Straight literature spam roleplay! Where MEN go to be huge nerds and write about their fantasy Mary Sue’s attempting ineffectually to get on with the main quest! What were we supposed to be doing again? I was too busy describing this LEMON in twenty pages or less. I don’t know, but lets get off track with this pointless subplot I’ve pulled out of a hat!
Whips and chains roleplay is also pretty great.
Online, I’m quite partial to choose-your-own-adventure roleplay (think Zork, but with a DM). Give ’em a command prompt and a setup, and let the magic happen.
I get the impression I’m losing touch with the way MMOs are going these days.
I pretty much stopped MMOing a few years back. Guild Wars was in decline, and I kinda got tired of playing Mabinogi.
Guild Wars PvP standard is: Jump in, spike the squishy, get out.
Regardless of tanks or aggro-control, the moment the Sin appears, he is gonna aggro SOMEONE on account of generally going straight for the healer (shadowstep techniques help)… so the trick is to do the damage (i.e. assassinate the healer) and escape before they can react. No Sin is likely to last long in a drawn out fight behind enemy lines, irrespective of what the allied healer or aggro-control is doing.
Mabinogi was… different…
No strict classes as such, though most people specialised one way or another. As such, you’d only have a dedicated healer in the party if you were lucky enough to know someone who voluntarily specialised in it (they tend to be VERY appreciated though). Folk in Mabinogi are generally expected to keep themselves alive, unless they’re up against insurmountable odds (in which case there is generally a healer just outside the room, healing them up from outside aggro-range).
It’s not a throw-down, it’s a kneel-down.
Oh *hell* yes. Time for everybody to remember why Badass McLeaderpants was in charge in the first place. Speech! Speech! Speech!
Cue the slow-to-start, rousing orchestral build up!
“… then take an arrow to it. Excellent, now we can all be guards!”
Bravo
Is Byron’s sleeve is eating Bandit’s face (or vice versa)?
All traditional garb from Battleshire is made of bacon.
Actually Byron’s suit was white when he entered the hall.
Pork chops. He took the jacket off.
… Can’t unsee.
“Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up! I don’t have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. A day may come when the courage of men fails. This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you’re gonna let it be the worst. Well, I’m not going home. The line must be drawn HERE. Soldiers! Don’t give yourselves to brutes! Men who despise you, enslave you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think, what to feel! You’re like a big bear with claws and with fangs! He pulls a knife, you pull an trebuchet! That’s the Gastonia way! We few! We happy few! They may take our lives, but they’ll never take Spartacus! Because I’m Spartacus!”
“I’m Spartacus!”
“Shut up! I’m talking here, I’m talking here!”
“I know Kung Fu!”
“No one cares!”
“Leave Britney alone!”
“I’m not gonna leave Britney alone. I want her to get mad! What we’ve got here is failure to communicate! You’ve got to ask yourself one question: Is it safe? It comes down to a simple choice, get busy living, or get busy dying! Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. And as God is my witness, I’ll never be hungry again! That’s the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and you can’t handle the truth! So cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!”
I’d charge to that.
New Characters! N’tlygolas (Sad N’tlygolas is sad), Pensive the Rogue, Pouty Paddy (an alliterative nickname for Padfoot), Genyrick the half elf, and Bigote the Red!
… Those are the most beautifully sad-faced adventurers I’ve seen in a long time. ._.