Chapter 45 – Page 15
I wanted to take a quick, BIG thank you thank you to everyone who took advantage of our Axemas sales this weekend! We beat all our sales records thanks to you Guildies, and we’ll be riding that surge of power all the way to the end of Guilded Age… at Chapter 50.
5 more chapters huh? man, I am so hyped to see where this story goes.
Wow! Only 5 chapters huh? I wonder if this means we’ll see the end of the Guilded Age before the end of the year.
Can’t help but laugh at sad face E-merl re: the end of Guilded Age. I really want to see how they end everything, but then I don’t want it to end! Internal conflict! I’m progressing as a character! :D
Lol! Good point. My gravatar does seem to work well for my comment.
There’s 30-odd weeks left to the comic, and 3 weeks left to the year, so I’d say no. >_>
Hero/Killer. That’s not necessarily an either-or proposition.
People tend to assume there’s a dichotomy between the two. In truth it’s a matter of culture and perspective as much as anything else. A hero in one can be a criminal in another and vice versa. Nothing says that one can’t be both as well. It’s not just this generation that see’s things like that either. We have ever ignored the infinite sea of grey.
Isn’t there some saying about the different titles society gives out depending on how many people you kill?
Something on the lines of killing one person makes you a murderer, killing ten thousand makes you a conqueror or some such.
I think there are, but I can’t specifically recall any now.
But not really an issue here where 1) Shanna only killed 1 person anyway, and 2) the specifics of her action and her situation morally exonerates her.
But with Shanna there is probably the added fear that if she feels nothing then there might be something wrong with her and that something may be an indication that her mental health will break down like her mother’s.
“One death is a tragedy. Ten million deaths is a statistic.” – attributed so Stalin.
Speaks truth to the power of our bean counter overlords, doesn’t it?
“Killing one person makes you a murderer. Killing a million people makes you a king. Killing them all makes you God.”
–Frank E. Peretti/Ted Dekker; also may be a paraphrase of an older source
Which begs the question: What does letting almost 319 million people live in a state of perplexity, confusion, and paralyzation make you?
…a demagogue?
No, it makes you a vaguely-written Constitution drafted by context-absorbed, dead men of ambition, who never envisioned the nation it binds clinging so obsessively to the delusional beliefs it inspired, while remaining oblivious to its core tenets, and too ignorant to grasp the meaning they imbued their Papers with.
It makes you dead men whose creation has so thoroughly spiraled out of control that these beliefs rain down like boulders, with enough gravity and force to crush out common sense and even the purpose of Unity.
It makes you roll in your grave, and crave to flip a table covered in candles, to burn it all down.
And yet, there’s no zombie apocalypse here.
Replying just to say that I like your phrase “infinite sea of grey.”
Same here. That’s a wise statement. One I might use sometime.
If we’re gonna dichotomize, then there’s a distinction between a killer and a murderer. You can’t place Shanna among the latter given why she did it or had to do it.
This entire comment thread stems from the base observation that it is pointless to dichotomize.
Technically, it WAS pre-meditated. This was not an accidental death.
From a legal standpoint, premeditated = murder, accidental = manslaughter.
In all accounts, it’s a homicide. I like one way Trans Legal puts it – the death penalty is still technically homicide, albeit a legal version.
Intentional, for good or bad; unintentional, for good or bad… it’s still the killing of another human, and most people wouldn’t be taking it lightly.
Well, it depends on where you are. It varies from state to state, and of course from country to country. Some places it’s manslaughter, some places it’s negligent homicide, for example. And then of course there’s the question of how to classify killing in an intentional but not premeditated way, or when planning to injure but not kill . . .
Pre-meditated sure, but it was also self-defense. They gave our mustachioed compadre multiple opportunities to leave, and he perused them with the intent to kill them.
In any case all Heroes must sacrifice themselves in some manner, whether it is to kill another, and feel guilt, or burden yourself in the interest of others. The difference between a villain and a hero is that the hero feels bad about it.
The hero feels bad? Hunh…
They don’t show that in the movies often!
Are you kidding! There is always a scene of self discovery in which the Hero makes a self impacting decision!
The really really REALLY bad movies even narrate this scene. The “I know it’s wrong/not what I want to do, but I must do it anyways” scene.
“The difference between a villain and a hero is that the hero feels bad about it.”
Absolutely not. The difference is that the hero does not seek to kill people for personal gain or other immoral reason.
A villain is willing to kill for personal gain. A hero is willing to kill to protect people from villains.
That’s still somewhat simplified, but your version was just plain incorrect. Villains are known to feel badly for the things they do sometimes, too, but that doesn’t make them not villains.
Also, some heroes understand the situation well enough to not feel bad over it. Pretty rare, though, especially the first time.
But the point is that the FEELINGS underneath change NOTHING.
This. It’s not about how you feel about it. it’s about why you did it.
And not the self serving ‘why’ either – people lie to themselves and justify their actions all the time. The real why.
And yes, this means that things can get very messy. In reality there is very little black and white in the world, there is a whole lot of grey.
In this case Mr. Pornstash was a psychotic assassin, killing for personal profit, to protect the agenda of a corporation (that in this case had enslaved five people, and the CEO had delusions of godhood).
Sharon did shoot him, and if she hadn’t gone out there the showdown wouldn’t have occurred. But he had just killed two cops, had murdered their friend, had every intention of murdering them, and without her actions there is a reasonable chance he would have escaped (no other police were on the way), could have healed up and changed his appearance to return and attempt to kill them once more. Her actions were technically those of a vigilante, but under the circumstances were fully justified and understandable, which is why the police were willing to gloss it over and call it a win.
It was fundamentally about protecting herself, but it was also about protecting her friends, and there was probably a degree of avenging the dead (although that is generally not seen as justification for homicide). It was not a good act, but it was not an evil act either. With what she knew and the current circumstances – if the police had been able to subdue him she would not have had to act at all – it was the necessary act, and the best choice they had.
Not every villian seeks death and destruction for personal gain either. It just so happens things get in the way, and those obstacles need to be removed, quickly, usually.
The Hero still feels bad about it, remorse, guilt.
Many villains do feel badly, yes, but make sure not to make the mistake of calling everyone who feels badly a villain. I’ll not have you malign all the fine upstanding psychopaths.
I seem to remember mustache trying to raise his gun to shoot her. It was a case of take the shot or be shot, self-defence
In the context of the United States, that would depend on what state you live in. She confronted him and he attempted to raise his gun in response. In a “stand your ground” state, her shooting him would be self-defense. In any other state, this would not be self-defense, because she approached him with a gun, rather than leaving the area.
Nope. Not mutually exclusive at all.
Better than being killer and villain though.
That is what it means to be a warrior, a Chooser of the Slain. One choice, you have their lives. The other choice, your life, the lives of your friends, and all the people you will eventually save. You can only choose one. Take no joy in the act, but be at peace with your choice. -paraphrased heavily from something a fictional character (not mine) said in a similar situation. Google “Fifth Movement: Knights of the Tenth World, Part 2: Pawns to Promotion.” The website does have some fanfics with some violence, maybe NC17, nothing extreme.
Geez Shanna, the glass is always half empty with you.
I mean… you can’t really fault someone for being a bit traumatized after killing somebody.
Evil or no. It would have undermined the realism aspect of sepiaworld if it wasn’t at least *somewhat* brought up.
… I was making a joke :P
Ah, sorry, wooshed right over me.
Dry sarcasm is hard to communicate over text.
While the dialog is important, showing the weight Shanna is feeling on her shoulders but I couldn’t help but to poke fum of how everything with Shanna seems to be worst case, from her view that games=violence to the consequences of the shooting.
It’s not playing videogames that leads to violence, it’s working for a video game company (or writing about them) that leads to violence. ;)
You can be more than one thing.
Shanna, you killed a killer, that makes you a killest.
Not a killerer?
Pretty sure JJ was a moustache, not a man. He traded in that card a long time ago.
Yes.
Alternative: At the same time Shanna differentiates between killer and hero, while we readers point out she’s both (she killed a killer to save lives), it works on JJ too: Yes, Shanna, you did kill a man, but you also killed a monster. That shouldn’t be overlooked.
So the question that arises – did the mustache deserve death as well? Was it too glorious to be allowed to remain?
Who says the mustache is dead? Maybe we’ll see it rise from the grave to seek vengeance!
“…And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?”
– W.B. Yeats
Anyone else find it funny that Shanna is arguing this argument with a bunch of people who play games that depend on the exact opposite conceit to make the characters… not be murderhobos?
I see the irony, but I don’t get what you mean by the “exact opposite conceit”. The opposite of the notion that killing to save lives makes you hero? Because that seems just like the argument a gamer would use to defend their PCs’ actions, not its opposite.
But that’s their argument, not Shanna’s.
So basically a killer is a hero who run out of other options.
betcha Axemas story next
I’d probably be feeling the same way, but also VERY relieved. I’d be so glad to finally be able to sleep soundly and not wake up from nightmares, or with my heart beating out of my chest because I heard a tiny noise in the night and it might be that hulking beast of a man trying to get me.
Yeah this arcs hitting a bit close to home for me. Been in her shoes after 3 people tried to kick my door down for a home invasion robbery. Good thing for her, won’t have to deal with court and the legal system. Hopefully she can come to terms with it though and it doesn’t eat at her. Never been a real fan of Shanna even since Fans! really lol but what she’s about to go through, I don’t wish on anyone.
End? END?!? B-But, no!
Sometimes you only have losing options – sometimes your choice and your ability to choose is the only difference…
… and a thousand other excuses due the memetic virus of ‘the third perspective/position’. There is no such thing, dear Shanna. There is your side, and the other sides, and sometimes you coopperate; sometimes you clash.
Sometimes the only way out is through.
Old gods, this update tore me up inside.
Rikard
It’s never as glamorous as the media would make it seem. Iraq sucked too.
The monster called JJ Berten was NOT a man Shanna, don’t be foolish; it stopped being a man the first time it claimed an innocent life for a goddamn paycheck. In that action it abandoned the Social Contract and chose the brutal life of a human-shaped animal preying upon humans.
It was still in its late-prime and would have completed many more ‘hunts’ before finally getting overpowered by one of its prey in later years. It had NO future beyond murdering innocent life; while you were merely defending your life and others using lethal force as a final resort. Remember JJ could have surrendered to the cops if it wanted to continue living…
This beast deserves no more of your conscience’s time than a rabid bear you shoot dead after it charged you; even less because that hypothetical bear didn’t have as much of a choice as JJ did long ago. It chose for its life to become that of a thrown snowball -exciting, cool and exhilarating but inevitably very brief- do NOT blame yourself for being the wall it finally collided against.
Most of the times I don’t react to your comments anymore. But I want to use this occasion to point out what I find very interesting in what you write, specificyll the possibility of dehumanization you imply.
While Messenger above points out that “Shanna […] did kill a man, but […] also killed a monster” and thereby can combine the seeming contradiction (Is JJ a man or a monster?) you choose another way of thinking: Someone who acts like JJ forfeits not only his right to live but also his humanity. For me it is very interesting to see this expressed by you because it fits in nicely with a lot of your other comments.
In my opinion noone can stop being human but being human doesn’t exclude behaving monstrously. One of the problem I have with your way of thinking is the difficulty of who decides when someone isn’t to see as human anymore. History is plastered with terrible decisions in this regard.
Well the “line” is simple for me because I’ve worked in the prison and criminal system before. I can tell very quickly if a prisoner is still a human being or a beast and its an easy test: do they have any shred of empathy left at all, do they see their fellow humans as beings fundamentally equal to themselves and worthy of respect or mere tools for them to use as they see fit. Almost all prisoners/criminals fall on one end or the other.
Genuine empathy is actually pretty hard to fake except for maybe the best actors (which most prisoners aren’t).
JJ Berten? I’ve seen that damn thing before behind bars many times (maybe not quite so big and mustached): barbaric monsters who pretend to be [awful] philosophers so they can both mentally and physically ‘lead’ their posse of cronies around the prison yard.
JJ knew how to behave like a human, it probably knew what empathy was supposed to look like, but it had none. It had no sense of remorse for causing pain because it saw humans only in terms of whether they are useful to it or a threat to it.
As I wrote before – very interesting. Thanks for the elucidation.
Your quite welcome Ben. I know my views might seem harsh but well, in my experience, our current US society is a very harsh one so I suppose over the years my ego may have ‘adapted’ in a way. I do recall being more forgiving / optimistic in my younger years…
Interesting indeed. If I may ask, have you read Violence: Our Deadly Epidemic and Its Causes by James Gilligan MD? It’s written from the perspective of a medical psyciatrist who worked with criminals over several decades.
Sounds familiar but no, not yet. Thank you for the recommendation, I’ll check it out.
Well, I am horrified at the thought of only five more chapters in the story, and I can’t wait to see how this gets wrapped up.
But I want to take the time to say that while I’d like this story to go on forever, I really respect that you guys are making the decision to make this a (relatively) short, succinct webcomic. I look forward to getting a matched set of all the printed books once the final chapters get published! This has been a great work of art since the beginning, and it’ll continue being great until the end. Seriously, amazing work guys. I hope you get a nice break at the end of this and then start something equally amazing for us to read next.
“No, you protected your life by using lethal force. It wasn’t heroic or villainous, but it did have a good result.”
What makes a man a man?
A wiener
What it makes you, Shanna, is a sheepdog. You’ve learned that failing to stop predators results in people getting killed, and that sometimes the only way to stop a predator is to kill it. It doesn’t matter whether that predator is an animal, or a human.
It’s also important to remember that J.J. was undoubtedly the hero of his own story, just like everyone tends to be. Killing him was a necessary thing, not a glorious thing. It’s ok to be sad about it. That much wasted potential is always something to be mourned. So go have a good cry, then come back and take on his bosses.
The resemblance between Chrissie and Bandit is strong in that last panel.