New Comics Every Weekday - Written by T Campbell & Phil Kahn - Illustrated by John & Jason Waltrip
Awww BEEEEST. That’s so saaad :( His feelings are hurt.
The accused was caught red-handed having feelings
Having feelings of an almost human nature
This will not do!
Call Captain Pornstache!
Until proven otherwise, the only feelings Best is showing in that last panel is a great sadness for the sake of his companions, who are apparently too blind to see him for the hero that he is. That’s mostly their problem, but he will of course try to set them straight.
Or he could be playing them like he plays his axe. It’s not as if he’s had some great life-changing experience since he watched them being resurrected, and back then he certainly seemed to be the same old Best.
Aww why is everyone so against Best? He’s let the whole hero thing go to his head, sure, but I’m sure being a dick isn’t his only trait. Just like Byron is a good leader, but also a raving psychopath, Best is probably a big asshole, but also a guy who’s genuinely sort of good.
i agree. he is an incorrigible ass, but he fights for good. he could easily be a villain if he chose. he chose to be a hero.
The deal with Best is that pretty much all of his ‘heroic actions’ have taken place off-screen. Whenever he’s been with the group, he’s pretty much been a dickwad. (pushing Byron in front of the golem, blowing off the interrogation when him and Byron were supposed to be playing good cop/bad cop with Sunder, tossing the anchor kids overboard) This is pretty much the first time we’ve seen him act selflessly, don’t be surprised when folks ain’t exactly convinced.
Hero and dickwad are not as mutually exclusive as you seem to think. Gonna refer to a couple articles that might remind you of someone.
Really most variants of anti-hero would do to display this. Particular examples I could bring up are Batman in The Dark Knight. Spends the entire movie minimizing damage on the town from his personal feud, and not terribly effectively. I can’t even take the time to count how many lives were fucked over because Batman felt he was just such a freaking symbol to the people of Gotham (how is that anything but massively arrogant?). Culminates in his invading the privacy of a couple hundred thousand people just to find one man. We as the audience applaud him for it. We don’t even blink at it.
Sherlock Holmes. A man of wit who walked in and revolutionized law enforcement for the entire British Empire. Also a complete ass with an Ego that makes John Lennon’s infamous remark “We’ve become more popular than Jesus” seem tame by comparison. A complete degenerate by all appearances with multiple habits that could easily pull accusations of demonism. Heavy into cocaine. Inconsiderate in the furthest extreme, requiring every manner of accommodation in order to be expected to work at all. We don’t demonize him for being an incorrigible ass though, we applaud him for furthering the cause of Justice by centuries with his work.
As a whole, Best has been a dick every moment of his story thus far. Even today he’s being a dick by acting all shocked that the group thinks poorly of him when he knows full well what they think of him. That hasn’t changed or anything. It just surprises me how many people are willing to gloss over his accolades (most of which are on-screen. There’s a grand total of three know off-screen acts of heroism) in favor of the “Batman has an abrasive personality and isn’t heroic at all. He’s just a mopey rich kid taking his issues out on the city” argument, which of course only has one false component in it. “Isn’t heroic at all”.
Oh man, Sherlock is SUCH an ass. I love it! I just started reading the original stories for the first time. The more I read, the more I realize what a great choice Robert Downy Jr. was to play him in that movie.
Man, i am not sure why but i start to like Best more and more the longer this comic :D i mean sure at first he was a classical “asshole hero” and that is always worth a laugh but as of lately.. I dunno, i am starting to view him as more than that.
Of course, i expect this to be fixed within the following updates so he goes back to being an asshole hero again! ;) xD
I am surprised that people are surprised that the prophecied hero just acted heroically.
See, the thing of it is, only Best and the village people believed he was the “prophesized” one. To everyone else, Best acted like a magnificent bastard.
Hence the Jim response.
What is the “Jim response”?
“Noooooooo,…, no, no, no, no, no,…., yes” from the alt-text. Or has no-one else ever been mildly addicted to the Vicar of Dibley and other Dawn French classics?
Except it’s shown very early on that that’s not the case, and that others tended to view him as such. Only our main crew seemed to not be buying into it.
Well the thing was that afte Best left that village he had the confidence and bearing of a hero, so it was easy to buy into when one first met him. First impressions are important afterall.
You mean the guy who tossed an anchor over the side of an airship with a buch of kids in tow? Yeah, I can see people being a bit surprised. :-)
But he is NOT the hero of prophecy! It was a mistake, as the same comic has already shown!
DAMN, Syr, that’s the kind of thought you don’t admit out loud.
You’re supposed to be the tactful speaker!
Yeah, this. I mean, yeah, what she says is true, but…poor Peyet.
Never thought I’d feel sorry for the boy, but…yeah.
… I say ‘yeah’ way too much.
Haha Best still deserves it 100 percent.Come on temporary NPC
Why’s he acting this way?
It’s like someone slipped him a ring of opposite alignment….
I think he’s hurt that they don’t consider him a hero.
“And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”
It works both ways. Spend enough time doing good deeds of your own volition, regardless of your intent, and you will become a slightly better person.
To be fair, if Byron had gone berzerk he would have killed atleast some of the party, and Best still needs them. Also, he could have been saving his own skin, so this isn’t really that out of character.
Poor Payet! Where are Best friends when you need them?
He still needs them, or thinks he does. When he’s done with them, he’ll drop them like a bad habit.
The funny thing about habits, good or bad, is that you can’t drop them, only lose them…
And bad habits are not some of the hardest to lose. Not only we carry em for a lifetime, they are the ones we cherish most once we lose them.
bad habits are not *only* some of the hardest to lose
- fixed it for me.
Best: Listen, its not all about the groupies and the orgies and the fame and the power… sometimes its about the little people like you and your little problems ok?
Best isn’t the Prophesied Hero. As shown here: http://guildedage.net/webcomic/chapter-1/chapter-1-page-20/
He’s great at his job, a complex character, and may become a great hero, but isn’t prophesied. He just thinks he is and lets everyone know it.
That’s probably unrelated.
The accuracy of the prophecy is irrelevant. A man who lives his life around the notion that he is a hero is bound to be prone to acts of heroism. This is what he does.
Honestly I never got why anyone thinks enjoying ale and whores diminishes this. After saving a city he partakes in the local goods as they are offered. This making him a douche or not is one thing, but it makes him no less heroic.
Best believes he is truly the prophesied hero. Although he likes the idea of being important, the pressure is still great and epic heros with huge destinies are usually very lonely. Also, they tend to die a lot. Maybe Best realized that.
aww best. respect.
You can’t really blame Best… he’s a victim of the hype, he didn’t believe in prophesy when he was first told, but suddenly everyone is throwing themselves at him… and well sex and all… tell me you wouldn’t get a big head over it yourself. He is very good at what he does.
Oh, Best… You took your ball and went home like a whiny little brat when last they saw you. They have good cause to believe you are still a whiny little douche with no care for anything but your own reputation. They were genuinely shocked you wanted to hang out with them long enough to go to this temple in the first place… Or were you too busy composing odes to yourself to notice?
actually, as i recall, Best went out after laying the smack down on the uppity, self-rightious Byron and became a SUCCESSFUL hero, righting ever-escelating wrongs…please note that he also had the good sense not to get himself KILLED, despite working alone. and just because there was some comedic cameo by some twit with a talking sword, who’s to say Best ISN”T the hero of the Prophecy?
Successful = rich, famous, and very, very Gastonian?
Fuck that. I’d rather place my respect in those who are in for the “ka-Peace” and the higher calling, thanks.
Success = he saves lives on a regular basis. He serves a higher calling as well. The calling of the fates which he believes dictate that he spend his life in service to the people.
It’s a valid point. While they went off and performed a handful of missions for the Gastonian government before dying miserable deaths, Best walked off and resumed his life of freelance heroism meeting with great success in his endeavors. If he also obtained money and fame it’s only because cities have a tendency to be incredibly overcome with a spirit of thankfulness after being saved and will invariably spread the word. You can’t live a life like that and not become a man of means and repute.
He’s steadily been a far, far better hero then they have. He’s saved far more lives and done far more for the world as a whole. Does it matter that he parties it up afterwards? Does that make his deeds less useful somehow?
It’s mostly the fatherless children he’s left behind, and the idiotic reckless child endangerment that have cemented him as a giant douche in most people’s minds.
And how exactly do you measure the amount of good done? Certainly the first town would probably disagree that he had done much good for them – well they would if they hadn’t all had to move to different towns after Best looted them dry.
And really, we know almost nothing about what he’s done outside the party – it may be unfair to label him as a villain, but it’s just as unsupported to claim that he’s done more objective good than the others – there’s just not enough evidence to back it up.
There’s plenty of evidence that he was an objectively worse person, though. Personally, I’ll probably never be able to look past the whole child-abandonment and village destroying of his intro – but I do recognize that as more of my personal issues. It’s too bad, otherwise I would really be enjoying this turn of events =/
We’ve never seen him father any children and his health would indicate he practices safe sex. It’s medievelesque but I’m sure they’ve got some goat intestines they can use or something. It’s not uncommon for such settings to have a morning after herb of some sort. Either way there’s no evidence of fatherless children.
Those children would have died anyway when the ship crashed, which he prevented with his child endangerment. He saved their lives the same as he saved everyone else’s. How would you propose he have taken care of that situation?
Um… Carla and Darla? While I would take the paternity test before starting to pay child support were I in Best’s shoes, I’m pretty sure it was implied that he had something to do with those pregnancies.
Oh, and I would very much like to watch the sitcom that is sure to ensue once Payet’s successor is persuaded to do the right thing and make honest women out of Carla and Darla. :D (Those two are quite obviously best friends of the ‘inseparable since they could walk’-variety, and would be nothing but happy with such an arrangement.)
Must have forgotten about that. Sounds like I might be due for another archive binge.
My sympathy for Carla and Darla is rather limited, being as they played a huge role in creating Best’s douchebag side.
wait… What page are they in?
Byron… self-righteous and uppity? Wow. Go back to the very first page and read the whole comic please.
chaotik74, he pulled a F U C K N U T move by doing the above.
You DON’T attack your team-mate from behind and then 1) call it a win and 2) even out of all those kids thrown over board, i agree none seemed hurt, but he was risking the TEAM’S mission by risking them (the kids they were sent to recover and rescue! = IDIOT!!
He attacked Byron from behind….Hero? NO! but not a total Douche bag either.
Actually it was the crashing airship that was risking the mission.
While axing Byron across the face certainly was an overreaction I could kinda understand Best’s frustration. Byron took it upon himself to lecture the one who arguably contributed most to the mission while his own performance was quite lackluster compared to all party members, not just Best.
Even later on when Syr was talking about how exciting the whole adventure had been Byron was being condescending basically saying “Pff, been there done that. This sort of thing is peanuts to me”. He’s gotten it into his head that he’s this badass veteran merc while struggling to actually justify it, especially early in the comic.
So when Best said “Some berserker!” I felt partially vented too as I felt Byron was finally being called out on his own brand of Rambo wannabe douchery.
I think that Byron’s lackluster performance is more firmly rooted in his desire to find more calculated means to an end. More than likely stemming from the fact that he’s the sole survivor of the onslaught and destruction of his village. Something had to have happened as a child for him to snap as a beserker(more than likely involving the death of many monsters) and until now he’s maintained the necessary discipline to keep from snapping into that homicidal rage.
Best, and everyone else called him out on his killing instinct and they paid the price when it finally did get unleashed, even if it wasn’t out of his own volition. Now try to approach everyone of Byron’s actions from the idea that perhaps he was doing so out of caution and everything up this point makes much more sense. It’s not an outright excuse but to me it more than justifies everything that’s occurred.
Caution and safety to a man as traumatized as Byron was his safeguard against his own madness. It’s hard to get into the thick of things when you consider yourself as much of a liability as the enemy and in Byron’s case worse than the enemy.
As for Best? He came off as a total ponce. And had continued to do so until he showed this slight inkling of compassion. Womanizing? Undesirable to be sure but not something to be detested for. What I hated about him was his HUBRIS. Even if everyone took the time to sing his accolades his actions towards his peers was laced with his undeniable narcissism and attitude that everyone else was beneath him.
That is what I detest about “Best” and will continue to do so despite this slight shred of humanity cast upon him by this “single” scene in a myriad collage of being a complete and utter ass.
A very well written insight about Byron. Bravo
Well, I don’t really see douchery in what Byron’s do.
The flying ship mission ? What did Best do on that one, except throwing children overboard ? Not really what we can call the right thing to do.
When throwing children overboard saves their lives I really think we can.
If it had been, “throw the moverboard for 90% probability of death, or leave them on board for certain death” then sure. It would have been the right thing. However, as Byron pointed out, there were any number of other options he could have chosen, like steering the ship, using balloons as parachutes, or similar things. All of these options would have had a much higher probability of success.
That he succeeded is laudable. That he could have succeeded in another way means that he needs to be smacked upside the head for being so stupid about how he did it.
It’s all fine and dandy to say that there were other ways it could have been done, but when he did it everyone was standing around clueless as to what to do as imminent death stared them all in the face. Best is the only character who came up with any manner of working solution in the moment, and had he not acted quickly those children would have died while Byron pulled the committee together to think tank.
What imminent death? The biggest fear was that the town “might” fire on them when they went over. That’s a long way from “certain death” and certainly gives them plenty of time (ie more than the 20 secs Best took to think) to come up with alternate solutions.
I mean, how about tying the anchor to a chain that didn’t have shildren already attached?
Imminent /= certain.
Sure, the city might not have fired upon them. That was certainly a possibility. That doesn’t earn them any extra time.
Considering that there were people already present at the crash site they cannot have been far from the city. Not to even mention the difficulties of landing the thing once they’re above a settlement.
The fact is time was of the essence. The uncertainty of their demise did not make it any less real. To progress further would be to risk being fired upon.
Could he have taken longer than that? Probably. Not gonna deny that. He and Byron are polar opposites that way. Byron’s all about the planning and strategy. Best is all about the split second decisions.
The problem is of course that this was the Group’s first mission. Teamwork was and still is unrefined. Best has no respect for Byron’s planning abilities and Byron treats Best’s split second decisions with scorn.
Ideally they would both make use of eachother’s skill set. It’s what groups do. Best would be laying the plans and creating strategies, and when there’s a kink in the execution as there is always bound to be, that’s when Best would step in and brings things back into line.
Take for example moments like this
Byron lays out the plan. Surprise attack and the formation falls apart. Surprise reinforcements and now the ranged support is out of comission. This is when Best comes in with creative solution and brings everything back together.
Problem is that Byron views this type of behavior as insubordination. His dangerous gambits are… well they’re dangerous.
Best on the other hand views Byron’s incessant planning as slow and ineffective. Their methods are diametrically opposed, which is why they would make great partners while also being the schism between them.
Bringing this back to the anchor incident, yes. More time could have been put in. Hesitation isn’t how Best works though, and while he acted too quickly Byron could not act at all.
Note Byron’s face back on page originally linked in my previous post. He had no plan. They had found themselves in a flying machine unexpectedly. There’s nothing in Byron’s handbook that was equipped to deal with that, no matter how cool he played it with Syrnj later. This was a moment outside of Byron’s plans and lacking the timeframe needed to analyze the situation in depth in order to come up with an optimal solution. That’s Best’s forte. That’s when he comes up with an unorthadox gamble in order to save a mission that’s fallen to shambles.
The real problem is not that he acted so quickly. The problem is that he didn’t wait for input from the rest of the group. If there are three minutes within which to act, then 2:30 of that belongs to Byron and when that fails we enter the domain of Best. Best acted as an individual rather than a member of a group in that moment. It’s to be expected since the team trust had yet to be realized and his relationship with Byron in particular was antagonistic at best.
I do not recall if at any point Byron was assigned leadership, but his failing in this is that he did not provide an environment in which his word would be respected. Barking out orders as if the man is contractually obligated to obey is no way to earn loyalty, and breeding animosity is no way to convince the man you’re an ally.
Quite simply, none of this is anything unusual in a newly formed group. Ideally as the team solidifies itself and everyone falls into their role and learns to rely on their comrades incidents like this will become fewer and father apart. You can only expect a certain level of performance when no one knows what the dwarf’s thinking, the leader is blatantly keeping secrets and racial preconceptions are creating malign undertones in every interaction. It’s even worse now, since the group has surpassed much of that while Byron was gone which places him far behind the rest in this area of development.
*While Best was gone.
And I take it tl;dr is considered poor form in an argument?
So you’ve got two basic points:
Death seemed possible, so any action is better than no action, and no-one else was providing action.
Byron wasn’t good enough as a leader because Best didn’t respect him.
Here are my responses:
1) Any action is better than no action ONLY if no action guarantees death. I said before that throwing kids overboard probably gave them a 90% chance of death? Let me revise that upwards. It was frankly miraculous that they didn’t die. This is in contrast to “there was a chance they would be shot at.” A chance. And then, given that they’re in a flying ship moving at an OK speed and fairly far away, there would also have been good odds the shots would have missed. Even if the shots hit, odds are low that they would have seriously endangered the people on board. Look at actual figures from most naval engagements. The death rate is surprisingly low. The sinking or crippling (destruction of masts) rate was even lower. So, if Best was thinking (and you’ve pointed out that the essence of Best is that he doesn’t think), then those thoughts went,
“oh no, there’s a chance we might get shot at. Then there’s a chance some of those shots might hit. Then it’s not impossible that one of them might actually injure somebody. Sure, the odds are low, but it’s vaguely possible. Right. That’s it. I’d better throw the children overboard and almost certainly seriously injure or kill them.”
And this is the argument that Best is not a douche?
2) Who cares about Byron? We’re arguing about Best. The fact that Byron was a crap leader doesn’t stop Best being a douche.
No, tl;dr is legit. I didn’t realize how much I’d typed when I clicked post.
As I’ve stated repeatedly Best is, has been, and will likely always be a douche.
Either way you’ve got some good points there.
Wiped out the pirate crew single handedly, pwned the giant with his guitar, saved the party and children from crashing or being blown out of the sky.
Well, Payet, you have to admit you didn’t give them much reason to not believe it, up till now…
*You really mean that, don’t you?”
Pffff, hahahahahahhahahha! Oh Best. Je t’adore, tu petit merde-elfe. :D
Hey Phil, there should be an exclamation mark after the *yes* in the alt text assuming I understand the effect you were going for.
The Captain actually speaking French?! I… I’m stunned. Flabbergasted even.
Pour-quoi? Avec son nom, c’est sensible, n’est pas? Si j’ai dit, Je m’appelle Jean-Luc, puis tu iras expecter que je puisse parler le français.
Either that, or: Je ne parle pas le français, ne sais que ça phrase et ce qui l’éxpliquer.
(I don’t speak French, just that sentence and this one explaining it).
Hey, I speak French, too! “I surrender! I surrender! Stupid Americans! Give me a cigaret-”
*gets clubbed to death by angry Frenchmen.*
Just remember: Those folk who live off of the land in the bayous of New Orleans and whatnot, hunting alligators and stuff? French. Or to be more precise, Acadians. I’m Acadian too. :3
Unless I’m mistaken Acadian is French-Canadian right? Or I guess some of it extends into the US, too, but it’s a North American dealy. Because that’s kind of something else entirely. Kind of like calling myself English over here in Ontario.
Awesome as Gambit may be, I’m quite sure he’d slap you upside the head if you called him a Frenchman. He’s a Cajun. Not even close to the same.
Cajun is actually derived from Acadian (try saying the latter with a heavy french accent, you’ll see). They were moved there by the great deportation (an attempt by the English to eliminate them as a military threat during the French and Indian war in 17-something. Check out the link under my name for more).
Agreed though that the amount of time that has passed since then has separated them into different peoples now though, even to to the point of where they almost can’t understand each others French. I’m French-Canadian myself, and I have serious issues trying to talk to Acadians (Never tried speaking french to a ‘Cajun yet).
Also, salient point: The French only started surrendering AFTER all the Canadians left, and Canada’s never surrendered to anybody ;-).
*Takes Locke’s rifle.* “Sweet! Never been fired, and only dropped once!”
There’s no real way of saying “you little shit-elf” in French, it would have to be “my little shit-elf”. :3 ‘Tu’ would be in front of a verb. -nods-
How about “tu est une petite elfe de merde”? Or possibly “tu qui est une petite elfe de merde”? I agree “ma petite elfe de merde” would be a much better manière de dire, but the other two wouldn’t be wrong, and the second one still makes sense in the context of the rest of what the Captain said.
As a French man, I’d say we can translate “you little shit elf” by “espèce de petit elfe de merde”.
@ Michael Haneline :
:-’( Why ? Why are there such nasty cliches about France ?
*sad puppy face*
Ok, ok guys, you caught me. I’m not really French.
So, as a literal translation, that would be something like “member of a race of little elves of shit”? Also, can I get some clarification over whether “l’elfe” is masculine or feminine? Not in Best’s case, but in general. The “e” suggests, but does not prove, femininity, but the instance of most people for using “petit” suggests masculine.
Any native speakers (or possessors of good, non-internet, dictionaries) care to shed light on this?
Looks like Best’s self-esteem just took an axe to the face.
More like a needle to the eye. It was syr’nj who insulted him.
Appropriate, given his previous incarnation as a little prick.
I like how Gravedust and Frigg react together. Does it mean I’m shipping them?
The real question is: Who isn’t being shipped with each other? :o
Best/Byron is my slash of choice.
Hahhahahahaha… yes the frigg / dust look adds that little bit of you know what to the page
Okay, who is this guy, and what has he done with Payet Best?
Didn’t you read the release notes? He was patched on Tuesday.
This dude is full of win!
I must be the only person ever who never hated Best.
What is with you all?
…”hate” is a strong word.
I still think he’s acting a lot differently from the time before he left the band’s company the first time (dunno if there will be some explanation to this change, or if I should have gotten it from the story upt to now), but he was cool then too…
I’ve been rooting for Best since he showed up. He’s my favorite character and I nearly stopped reading when Bandit replaced him.
(eagerly awaits Monday)
honestly I sense a “I never left you, you left me” speech coming. and I never hated best, he’s a magnificent bastard
Magnificetn bastard or not, he’s still bastard.
At least, he was so much more of a bastard before he left the group for thr first time.
I don’t think even the fans of Best are claiming he’s not a bastard-douche.
I’ma disagree with everyone here and say, yes. You were the only person.
Frigg and Gravedust are hunting for flies.
How did he know so much about B’s life? And what children is he talking about?
Well, Byron is a berserker, and that means he’s from Battleshire, and Best knows the story of Battleshire.
Some of it could be metaphorical. The main message of the song could be summed up something like this:
The war is over, you can let go. People who care about you are waiting for you to return and be the man you were before.
….Just reminded myself some of the song Iro sang on his son’s birthday
right-clicked him for his character profile, most likely.
I love Frigg and Gravedust’s expressions in Panel 5.
I’m calling that we’re focusing on the wrong part. It’s not that Best can’t believe they thought he wouldn’t risk his life for them…. it’s that they thought he was actually at risk….
“I may be a douche-canoe, But I’m still just as skilled as any of you!”
Yeah, makes sense. Watch the next comic re-establish his douchebag-ness.
I could go with that. Seems like he’s never thinking what we think he’s thinking….I think…
eugh, brain hurts now.
Well, last time they saw him, the guy landed a boat by throwing a load of children off of it, after all (not that i disapprove. If he had to do it again, I would watch it again, and love every instant of it). But, still, no wonder they are a bit surprised.
…You know, I’ve *been* Best.
Well, without the axe guitar virtuoso skills and the body that looks like it came out of the Rivendell Abercrombie and Fitch store catalog – but I’ve been the guy who thought that he was being a hell of a fellow, up until the moment that somebody gently told me that no, I was actually being (and still was, at that moment) a schmuck*. And I realized that it was true.
‘Course, Monday Best might revert back to type.
*There are even those who would suggest that I’ve never stopped being one, in fact. :)
Yeah, I’ve been there as well. Comic characters? Relatable? Who’d have thought it?
I’d just like to believe that this’ll put an end to the purely binary interpretations of Best and Byron’s characters that people like to throw around.
Byron good..Best bad…right?Hehe
That last panel… SNIFF! =´o
oh eff you, writers, why are you making us like him? grrr…
You can’t make me like Best. It’s just not going to happen. He’s a tool through and through, even his real world persona, and a moment of hurt isn’t going to be enough to change that. This is insult he richly deserves.
Believe it or not, not everything is about you. Perhaps they’re actually writing a good story – not one where the lovable village folk are the good guys, and the big shadowy warlock wants to destroy the world for no apparent reason.
I’m looking at YOU GUYS, Tolkien and Brooks.
Apparently you got to this party late, skimmed over the archive. You might want to read Chapter 4 again. It’s the one where Best throws children off of a flying ship and attacks Byron twice. He was graphically labelled Douchebag in the first few chapters.
That you apparently don’t know the plot of Tolkien’s series is doubly telling. Enjoy your scorn and animes.
(P.S. you might want to hold off on linking your DeviantArt until you have anything at all worth showing.)
He wasn’t talking about JRR directly. It was a general statement about generic villans. Jeez. I would expect someone who hates Best for not being nice to be nice themselves but…
I’m a person of transient moods.
That doesn’t excuse being a douchebag.
No, look. You’ve got no call to bring someone’s artwork into the conversation. It’s a douche move and an uncalled for insult.
Also, just because someone makes a valid point about the repetition of Terry Brooks and dares think negatively about the unmatchable holy works of JRR Tolkien doesn’t mean they’re automatically an anime fan.
(As a note, your description of anime… I won’t argue it, because it’s obviously pointless. But I will point out that you’ve also described American cartoons to a T.)
Hello, pot. Have we met? They call me Mr. Kettle.
Are you referring to yourself? Maybe you can’t see it, but you’re acting like a pretty big douchebag right now.
Sorry, correction: the biggest douchebag right now.
Yes, that is what referring to yourself as “kettle” would imply, especially while accusing another of acting as a “pot.” You see, it’s a reference to the famous idiom, “the pot calling the kettle black.” When the insult (or if we’re being generous, critique) applies just as well to the accuser as the accused, it holds significantly less weight, doesn’t it?
Douches douching at each other just makes a bit of a mess but in the end they’re both still douches.
Even if s/he were directly accusing JRR, there is a point to made there (this coming from someone who adores LoTR). There really is no good reason for Sauron to be taking over the world, unless you read through The Silmarilion, and even then there’s no good reason for Morgoth to be trying to take over the world. This in no way detracts from the books, because they’re still awesome, and what will later become cliché is a great deal more forgiveable in the original. Especially because the original is just so much better.
As for Brooks, yeah. There’s something seriously wrong with the Shannara books. The first was good, until the weird ending. The second was OK. The third was really quite appaling, and after that it didn’t make any sense because they had already destroyed the ultimate source of all evil ever.
So, as an unashamed Tolkien fan, I have to agree with Redo. Oh, and what is wrong with animé?
I didn’t say there was anything wrong with it, I was only blessing what he apparently enjoys, passing out scorn and his japanimations, because he was off base about old fantasy literature. But if I had to pick something….
It’s designed from the ground up to be produced as cheaply as possible. Limited art style, almost no animation, appeals to a low audience not in numbers but in expectations, and highly dependent upon its cliches. While its true that there are titles from the market that are able to transcend those trappings, its because they strive to differ and the stylings become lost. Miyazaki’s efforts leap immediately to mind. Japanese? Yes. Undoubtedly. Animated? Clearly. But is it archetypical anime? Completely, unequivocally, inarguably, no. And that is what’s wrong with anime. It’s patterned, unapologetically. A cookie-cutter field with penny-worth batter.
So many targets. So many possible flame wars. Let’s just stop here.
Wait, what? That isn’t an accurate description of American cartooning at all. American cartoons are notoriously expensive, so most are made targeted towards wide audiences. The sheer number of pitches that go overlooked, since it’s more expensive, mean that a lot of weirdness gets to the top. There is a large appeal to secondary audiences in American cartooning, since the assumption is parents will be watching with their children, so you don’t get the same panty shot beach episode kind of bullshit. The west is also where the art of animation originated. They’ve been at it longer, and have always been obsessed with subversions and fluidity as a result of exploring their invented medium.
That’s two wildly different histories, two wildly different cultures, and as a result two wildly different markets. To try to compare the two (LOL THEY’RE EXACTLY THE SAME) is completely stupid rationalization with no basis in anything resembling reality.
Actually, I’m sure that you’ll find that American and Japanese animation are far more alike than you think. You can’t say that they’re exactly alike, but you also can’t honestly say that his description doesn’t describe American animation at all.
Are there American cartoons with a lot of care and attention put into them? Yes. For the most recent ones, you’d only have to look as far as Sym Bionic Titan or MLP. However, you can just as easily look at most of the American-made shows on Adult Swim, Archer, Ugly Americans, or the old Marvel and Hanna-Barbara cartoons. Many of them are Flash cartoons, and the older cartoons were drawn so that they could spend as little time on motion as possible. That’s not even touching the things like Boondocks or Young Justice, which are animated in Korea. (You’ll find a lot of American cartoons are animated there.)
Not that Japanese animation isn’t guilty of this. The original Gundam series was notorious for horrible, rushed artwork where the title mecha didn’t even resemble itself between shots. Hokuto no Ken frequently had jaw-droppingly awful animation. Voices of a Distant Star was made entirely on a Power Mac in some guy’s bedroom.
Both American and Japanese animation houses cut costs wherever they can, unless they have determined directors behind them. Japanese animators target single audiences far more often than American ones because a lot of Americans still view cartoons as ‘kids stuff’ or comedies. Both countries re-use just as much story material as they invent.
And, yes. Tezuka’s art style, what would become the very foundation of anime when it was first being made, was heavily influenced by Disney because he was a huge fan.
Is there anything else to cover?
Also: as a note? Animation as we know it?
It was invented in France. Not America.
Hence “animé” – a French word.
J. Stuart Blackton. That is all.
He created the first animated film. He did not create the first animations.
Regardless of how fine you wish to split these hairs, my statement was that animation as an artform originated in the west.
G.I. Joe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yeA7a0uS3A&feature=relmfu
Jem and the holograms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgzZ2Ta0EpA
Josie and the Pussiecats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX28LD0MiFU&feature=fvst
Sailor Moon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ten4sIwapQ4
Fist of the North Star: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo7jH23J1h0
I’ll just leave these here.
Messed up. Here’s G.I. Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YjfGex5JHY
Actually, the first two seasons of G.I. JOE was animated by TOEI, a Japanese animation house. Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle. G.I. JOOOOOOOOOOE
You sir, just blew my mind. So you’re telling me that the previous vid was japanese animation whereas this is american animation?
And then a google search on Dic Entertainment reveals it to be an international corporation run by a frenchman who spent much of his time writing and producing shows animated by Japanese studios.
What does this even mean?
That globalisation has won, and it is awesome.
God I love the global community ^^. Frankly dividing entertainment by nation of origin seems like an archaic system to me. A view that I’m sure will come to be shared by progressively more people as the years pass.
Good entertainment is just good regardless of how, where, or when it came to be.
From what I understand, painters associated with the New England Renaissance, in the 1840s, were strongly influenced by the Japanese ukiyo (floating world) style, which became visible with the opening of trade relations between the US and Japan.
In general, much of US history, going back to the motivations for the American Revolution, is shaped by the ambition to dominate trade with Asia.
There has been regular contact between the world’s major cultures since the 18th century, and there were tenuous contacts before that. Artists from different cultures have been influencing each other for a long time.
I would like people to get over the idea that somehow “the West” and “the East” were hermetically sealed until last week.
Second Panel, Lower Right – Lay your hand – SAIL is what it looks like to me. Which makes not much sense.
err, lay your hand ? is what i tried to write, but apparantly greater-thans and less-thans make HTML do stuff.
Still doesn’t make sense to you?
Well, Payet has been kinda hurt by Syr’nj words, but hey. Although he recently changed his behavior for the … best, most of the time, Payet kinda acted like a bastard most of the time, so far.
Don’t worry P. boy. Syr’nj didn’t want to hurt you. She’s just … very surprised.
wait wait wait..let me get this right…Best? being sincere? and having some character deepness?
I think thats a big first. ….and absolutly not like the best we know.
But i mean that in a good way,cause maybe there is still hope for him,maybe.
i still want bandit back thought. i miss her silly antics.
Is it really Best or could it be an imposter? :)
Crap! Maybe his player went AFK and his younger brother took over the keyboard!
Gravedust and Frigg’s faces are hilarious. Also I think I ship Best/Byron now…
/facepalm I just figured out that Bandit had to be out of the way for Best, since he was a party replacement for a five man band.
Just because Best can and has been a douche, doesn’t mean that he can’t have a depth of character that is slowly revealed. Everyone can and usually does change over time.
Best started out as a “Shit elf” with no respect and very low self esteem because everyone told him he was worthless. No one loved or even liked him, then due to a coincidence people started to react to him as if he was actually worth something. Someone who has gotten no respect for their entire lives would jump at the chance to suddenly be the center of attention. To be liked, loved, even worshiped.
People suddenly think you are worth something, and you finally begin to believe it, you are so overwhelmed by the adoration of others that you go overboard and become, well… a douche. You begin to believe all of the hype, just as the reverse was true at the beginning of your life when you believed the people telling you that you were worthless.
Now it’s just a matter of him actually starting to think for himself instead of listening to all of the outside voices for a change. He has learned that not only is he capable, he can actually be a hero; he has the confidence of self to actually achieve something. But he needs to figure out that it’s his own expectations that he needs work at living up to. Not the beliefs and expectations of others.
Hoo-boy, that third panel is probably just rallying all those slash-fiction fangirls out there to action. Congratulations, Phil, Guilded Age will probably have its own section on Fanfiction.net by Sunday.
I did searched the net for fics this very moment, just to be safe…
Like many others, I can agree that Best is very good at what he does, while still thinking he’s a raging dickhead for the way he acts. This is why I’ve rather disliked him from the start. If this is the start of some redemption for him and he’s NOT going to be such a jackass all the time, I’m delighted. I don’t like the kind of party when most of the characters seem like a unified whole — EXCEPT for one character who just doesn’t fit. And that’s what GA has seemed like, until just now. I hope I’m right and that he may start fitting in a bit better now.
IMPOSTER, YOU ARE NOT PHIL.
Wait… “Cheers”? Cote, is that you? (If not, ignore this sentence, focus solely on the first.)
Nossir. Not me. I only ever pose as myself. *insert shifty eyed look here*
(Ps LOVE that my tag-line has somehow become proprietary)
So why is your username “abcus”?
Seriously, Centurion? “Cheers, Abcus”? It just doesn’t have the same ring.
That’s why I sign all my letters as “Yours Truly, Bruce Campbell”.
Yes, I get that. But why not simply have the username/postname as Cote? If privacy is the issue, then why sign off the posts as Cote?
He may be a little bummed out now, but don’t worry.
He’s the Best.
Nothing’s ever gonna keep him down.
Regarding talk of how we explain Best’s new behaviors. I’m gonna say we don’t really have to explain it as such. The party knew him for half a day, decided he was villainous after he saved all their asses, and then they split up. They only ever really saw once side of him, and that side was further discolored by blind rage at his child endangering ways. Understandable. Child endangering tends to have that effect on people.
Something similar is true of us as the readers, though not quite to the same extent. We’re privy to his origin story, and all, though I could point out that it similarly displayed only a single aspect of him and was none too subtle in the attempts to attach connotations to his actions (Did the shit elf just unlock an achievement?).
It’s not that he’s changed, though he may have grown. Quite simply though there was always more too him than “Enormous douche who burns orphanages by breathing hot air all over them”.
When he left in a huff before he was suitably offended. He saved the day with no casualties and they vilified him for his methods. He told them such. Today he is understandably hurt. He acted as the one man diversion taking on what must have been fifteen pirates on his own so they could get the mission done. Was he not risking his life for them then? He threw himself at Byron to save him from golem laser eyes not even an hour ago. Is the party supposing he did this from a position of safety?
This is what Best does. He goes out there with his axe and his music and he saves lives. It’s more than what he does. It’s what he is. To see his life’s efforts being ignored by those who have witnessed and benefited from them on multiple occasions because of his admittedly abrasive personality is gonna bum him out.
Quite frankly I love characters like this. Being a hero doesn’t mean being superman. One isn’t required to be a paradigm of nobility to lead a life of worth. Honestly I think most people in such a pursuit would be somewhat Best-like. If they didn’t have a bit of a volatile temper, an arrogant streak, or some manner of misanthropic tendencies they wouldn’t be out there slaying beasts and neutralizing dangers. They’d be back at home with the rest of the scared villagers, or at best just another soldier in the procession line. That’s why despite accusations of Gastonian attitudes, he’s been the one out there protecting the people while the main group takes their orders and paycheck from the Gastonian empire.
Biggest problem with Best is a simple lack of self-awareness, I think. He expected people to view his actions in the best possible light and then felt blind-sided and threw hissy fit when they didn’t. He’s going to have to learn the same lesson Mr. Darcy did: People don’t have access to your internal monologue so if you expect them to like you then occasionally you’ll have to actively show you are not motivated entirely by your own ego.
Except that the majority of the convincing to actually like him was done by the magnificent grounds of Pemberley. And to be fair, they are spectacular grounds. Even Kenneth Branagh can’t top it for pure scenery porn (and if you ever watch his version of Hamlet, you’ll know he still tried).
Georgiana then provided Lizzy with an excuse to not hate him because she proved that at least he is nice to his own family. By the time he finds Lydia, it’s basically just confirmation of the fact that she already likes him.
In short, the lesson Darcy actually learns is “even though you’re an arrogant bastard and no-one else can hear your internal monologue, if you have a nice house and garden people will like you anyway.”
Nicely said Gangler.
Aww this page just made all Payet Best fangirls faint. The mighty hero is powerful and strong… but sad ;_;
Don’t know why, but I laughed at the funny yellow flowers.
Best’s song strikes me as consisting completely of the slow part of a metal song.
Also, I just want to make sure: the alt text isn’t a Vicar of Dibly reference, is it?
No! No. No. No no no. No. Maybe.
When I see Byron and how some people think he’s a bad character… I think of him as John Rambo from First Blood, and the people in question as the protesters he talks about at the end of the movie.
“Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don’t turn it off! It wasn’t my war! You asked me, I didn’t ask you! And I did what I had to do to win, but somebody wouldn’t let us win! And I come back to the world, and I see all those maggots at the airport, protestin’ me – spittin’, calling me baby-killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me, huh? Who are they? Unless they been there and been me, and know what the hell they’re yellin’ about!?”
Yeah, sometimes Byron can break under the pressure, but obviously it’s easy for you to forget the stuff Byron tries to keep under lock and key inside of him. You would think that his first Berzerking would be able to attest to that.
This strip was beautiful. It was so real. Props to John, he done real real good here.
that’s real nice of you, Unreal.
Sorry, Best. First impressions and all that, with the tossing children overboard as an anchor and kicking the crap out of the party guide. You didn’t really make it a good one. But, now you can settle in with some actual character re-development and get this all sorted out.
But will he still need the Basin of Foresight after this?
Arright, here’s how this is gonna work: Somebody is going to account for his behaviour during the flying ship incident. If no one does, this new leaf is going down as “debatable,” i.e., a mystery for differing opinions on the comic until the end of it – or Best’s end in it. If someone does, that’s all it takes to decide. It’s the only thing he has to explain, and either he will or he’ll still be a douche – because no matter the stress you’re under, you just don’t do that to children.
That said, gangler’s analysis is deep and revealing.
A while back, someone had the theory that he did that to the kids because he thinks he’s the prophesied hero and that, due to his heroic destiny, none of the children would be harmed.
Oh gee, I hope not. Finding out he believes himself to be fatally incapable of failure would reduce my opinion of him.
Oh look, character growth and development! Excited as to where this leads.
Not sure it’s growth for Best. He hasnt really developed much, more that we’re getting to know him more. Even when he was at his most dickish he wasn’t some heartless monster. Which is why he would be so hurt by these people. They were pretty much his only adventuring party, even after a bad spat he went and brought them to life (even though he was tricked) he’s been more than cautious lately not to ruffle feathers and they still see him as being lower than low. All because he’s just a little arrogant.
A little arrogant ? Hugely arrogant, you mean ?
He just began to become acceptable.
No, hugely arrogant is when you still think you’re awesome in the face of direct evidence to the contrary. Throwing the children overboard, saving the day and thinking “Nailed it!” is a little arrogant. Throwing the children overboard, watching them die, the anchor breaks and the ship keeps going, they narrowly escape with their lives, and then proceeding to think “Welp, I pwned that mission. Too bad my lackluster allies screwed it all up.” is hugely arrogant.
Best is a man of abilities who thinks disproportionately highly of himself. Everything he believes about himself is something which he has been shown evidence towards but which he treats with greater significance than it warrants. Definitely mildly arrogant.
Ironically I would list Byron chewing Best out after Best did the majority of the missionwork and Byron spent most of it unconscious as an act of huge arrogance, though Byron is not a hugely arrogant person in general. Just kind of lost perspective in the heat of the moment. Berserkers have a tendency to do that ;)
I feel that there is something of a rivalry there as well. Best seemed to have a dislike for Byron from the jump for being a Barbarian type. And one of the pages of chapter 1 or 2 seemed to have implied Best was himself some variety of barbarian -but- he has his music and that makes him somehow better.
Actually, I think Rifleman has a point. I liked your posts until now gangler, until you started to accuse Byron here.
Your saying that Byron was hugely arrogant for chewing out Best, because Best did a lot of killing. However, Best also endangered everyone with his reckless arrogance, thinking he is always simply the best without thinking things through. It was Byron’s coolheadiness that often helped the party through their ordeals, and as leader I think he was almost obliged to put Best back into his shoes. Things worked out well in the end, but it could very well have gone all wrong, and his attitude wasn’t helping everyone.
Look, it’s nice that you like his character, but I don’t think that it’s fair to suddenly start accusing Byron of what not just because your favourite character is still very flawed. I would also like to see Byron kick some more ass, preferably not those of his own teammates, since I felt that everyone has gotten their spotlight except him. But saying that he is arrogant for pointing out Best his flaws, just because Best has killed more people, is just unfair.
I still don’t like the guy, but that is my opinion, even if he is developing nicely. But since when is being a fan of Best, also being a hater of Byron? If anything, I’d smack Best across the face as well after that whole ordeal and tell him to get back down to earth. Byron might have done Best a favor by teaching him some humility.
Hey, as I said, Byron is not an arrogant character in general. Byron’s great, and I didn’t view the statement as accusatory at all. You have to admit though, when one of you was able to come up with a solution, and one of you wasn’t, and the second party starts taking apart why the first party’s solution sucked, that’s arrogant.
Yes, Best is very flawed. I’m cool with that. I don’t however view Byron as a perfect and unblemished character either. I love them both for it, and I’m sorry if I have offended. I don’t feel that acknowledging that a character has flaws or has momentarily engaged in acts I disagree with is professing hate for them, and I certainly didn’t mean to come across as bashing anybody.
Gangler, I hereby ask you to write a ten page examination of the Guilded Age comic, pointing out Allusions to pre-Raphealite literature, paintings, and politics, Greek Myth, the work of Sigmund Freud, Dante Alighieri’s “The Divine Comedy”, the works of famous Russian writers, and any classic political writings. Then my favorite web comic will look even more impressive. You can do it, man. You are the ultimate critic.
I’d read it.
Byron criticism is valid. Nothing about GA should be taken at face value.
I don’t see Byron as perfect. AT ALL. As a matter of fact, I believe him to currently be the most broken characters of them all. He can barely hold himself together, and it shows. I see no reason whatsoever as to why he would be considered highly arrogant.
So Byron did something that you view as arrogant. So what? His core personality doesn’t hinge on the same values as Best, in that Byron knows he’s not perfect, even more so than his comrades because of his huge crutch of having to keep his berzerker state at bay.
I like Byron, I won’t deny it. He’s my favorite character. But I also like Best. I didn’t before, because, to be honest, he WAS more arrogant than any of the other characters, no matter what argument you throw out, face value or not. Seeing the two of them now, I find that the way for Best to become more of the hero that everyone hopes to see out of him, as well as the Byron who’s back on his feet and being the party’s spearhead is solely between these two.
I can understand your points, but to call Byron of all people very arrogant just doesn’t seem to fit. Heck, the person I find to be the second most arrogant – at times mind you, – is our resident redhead. Maybe not now after she’s died and learned some humility through Syrin’j, but you have to admit that she did have some haughtiness to her (not ‘hottiness’. :P).
Anyway, that’s just my two cents, make of it what you will.
I agree (for the most part). I personally find Byron an annoying sop (at least in his present incarnation), but previously he’s been quite good. Arrogance seems a very odd word for him, though. Yes, he chewed out Best for (probably needlessly) endangering the lives of all the children. Whether it was necessary or not (see above for continued arguments over this) is still disputed. However, as any decent Philosopher can tell you, even if the action was the right one to take, chewing the person out can still also be the right action to take. In this particular instance, it is possible that there were not other possible actions (though I strongly believe that there were). However, in just about every other possible instance, there would have been other possible actions that would be better, and so a thorough chewing out is merited to prevent future idiocy.
Regardless of whether the chewing out was merited, though, it is not arrogance to administer it. A genuine problem is identified, in that using children as an anchor chain, regardless of the outcome, is a stupid thing to do. A chewing out is andministered. This is not arrogance. Arrogance would have been if Byron said something like “Best, you’re a moron. You shouldn’t have thrown the children overboard. It was a stupid idea because it wasn’t my idea. All ideas that are not my ideas are wrong. Therefore it was wrong to throw them overboard.” Byron did not, in fact, say this. Thus I am puzzled that “arrogant” is the word Gangler has chosen. Any number of other criticisms may apply (for example, the fact that the alleged Bezerker slept out the majority of the fighting is, to my mind, a perfectly good criticism), but arrogance is puzzling.
Best’s Sepia World alter ego is nostalgic for the eight-bit era of gaming, and all indications are that Best usually adventures alone.
As I recall the eight-bit era of games, often the puzzles were fiendishly hard, or due to bugs, a level could not be beaten by “legitimate” means. The games had little capacity to track state, so no matter how you beat a level — whether you climbed over a wall by jumping from the dead bodies of your allies, or just “glitched” through the landscape — as long as you survive, then when you complete the level, you are The Greatest Hero Ever.
Best is acclimated to that style of play. The kidnapped children he tied to an anchor? He got the job done, so everyone is fine. He’s used to a world in which he is the only real person — yet he’s been told many times that he’s selflessly risked himself for others. So now he’s in a position to actually help others, the only other real people in this world as far as we know, and it’s just now struck him that they see don’t see his actions the way he does.
I just went back through the thread, and I’m really impressed by Gangler’s analysis.
“Gloaming. Noun (the gloaming). Poetic/literary: twilight; dusk.”
Hooray, I learned something today =D
I love this song, so beautiful… ;A;
When I see these panels, I think of Rush. The Necromancer, or Rivendell, perhaps.
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